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How scrolling becomes a religious act

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Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#51

Post by cassepipe »

keiferski wrote: post #6

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

Relevant Scott Alexander's post : https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/25/is-everything-a-religi...

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#52

Post by jack_pp »

dingnuts wrote: post #39
jack_pp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true of most Christians unfortunately. I've seen monks tell us that just because we go to church on Sunday doesn't make us practicing Christians. Most are living atheistic lifestyles and remember God only Sunday morning. Better than nothing I suppose..

is it? if I'm going to Hell anyway I might as well sleep in on Sundays

If you truly believed you were going to hell I think you'd have the opposite reaction

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#53

Post by svat »

AStonesThrow wrote: post #13
keiferski wrote: post #6

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

> Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas Well, yes, and as a religious person, I would suggest that the metaphor is more accurate than you think. To the pagans, a god is a supernatural force that demands worship, sacrifice, attention, effort, appeasement. To a Christian, a false idol is something that steals from the worship and sacrifice that is due to the One True God. You can spot a m…

> pagans […] false idols […] pagan gods are slavery and bondage for us

Just want to point out that abuse of other religions, and using “pagans” as a disparaging term, continues to be done casually in the Christian-influenced sphere, basically legitimizing the history of colonialism and the wiping out of other traditions. Keep it to yourself man! In other contexts terms like “casual racism” and “hate speech” would apply. As another religious person, I can assure you that no, the GP is right and the analogy with religion is weak; being obsessed with phones is not in itself like a “pagan” religion either, which too is about the “truly transcendent and holy things in life” (just with less of a binary distinction between the sacred and the mundane, so that one can go about one's daily life while staying in touch with what's truly valuable, which again is the opposite of the stated effect of "scrolling").

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#54

Post by FollowingTheDao »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #47
keiferski wrote: post #6

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

> I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic I wonder how much academic familiarity one really needs to recognise the rather obvious vernacular effects. I've studied religion and mass communication effects somewhat as well as being a practising Christian, and as I see it the word "religion" commonly applies to the orthodoxy and its big, visible impacts that ar…

I agree with your take. It does not have to be a good, or long lasting religion, it just has to have the aspects of religion, more so when the practice in general is used for control and dominance over others.

"Each scroll becomes a kind of prayer, submitting to the whims of an omniscient entity for the promise of reward." relates to the link between religion and dopamine/epinephrine.

https://www.wired.com/story/mormons-experience-religion-like...

One can almost link the rise of the internet religion with the demise of the traditional religions.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#55

Post by justinrubek »

RankingMember wrote: post #38
trollbridge wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say people definitely worship cars. Ask the average American to live without a car and see what response you get. Tell them it’s destroying the earth, their community, and their health and see what happens. Or even just ask them to change “denominations” from an ICE car to an electric car.

I think that's more addiction enabled by infrastructure that supports it and provides little viable alternative (in most places in the U.S.) than it is religion.

That is definitely why it is so prevalent, but people take it a step beyond this. The vehicle becoming part of their personality. Taking offense at the notion of not using a vehicle or not wanting to use a vehicle. Driving trucks around empty, with covered beds all the time. Not wanting electric because they love the concept of the internal combustion engine.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#56

Post by malfist »

trollbridge wrote: post #23
malfist wrote: post #5

If personifying something means we worship it in a religious context then people have been worshipping our mode of transportation since the dawn of time, plus slot machines and a whole host of other things.

I would say people definitely worship cars. Ask the average American to live without a car and see what response you get. Tell them it’s destroying the earth, their community, and their health and see what happens. Or even just ask them to change “denominations” from an ICE car to an electric car.

Do we worship air? Water? Food? Just because we need something for a comfortable existence doesn't mean we worship it or are addicted to it.

After, I'm not addicted to my house or my air conditioner, or my refrigerator. But I definitely don't want to live without them

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#57

Post by dingnuts »

jack_pp wrote: post #52
dingnuts wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it? if I'm going to Hell anyway I might as well sleep in on Sundays

If you truly believed you were going to hell I think you'd have the opposite reaction

not if I'm literally damned if I do, and damned if I don't! might as well enjoy what I can while it lasts, in that case.

if I thought going to church would keep me out of Hell I'd have the opposite reaction, but the GP was talking about how most people who go to church are still going to Hell

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#58

Post by giraffe_lady »

keiferski wrote: post #12
roenxi wrote: post #7

> Participating in group trends is fun—and essential to being human. It’s just important to remember exactly what we’re doing, and how our need for belonging can be manipulated by bad actors. Only then can we retain our individuality and understanding of what’s happening. Ah; this looks relevant to a topic I met through Kegan's model of adult development. Apparently around 66% [0] of the population doesn't think in a…

I’m sure this has been studied somewhere, but I bet the prevalence of individualism tracks with the proximity of a frontier to a civilization. Most of the really hyper individualist culture seems to come from frontier-type societies that need self-reliance to survive.

What these studies actually show is that a frontier in this sense is more of a relationship or conflict between civilizations. Scenarios where one single group was moving unimpeded into unoccupied land are very rare (only once per region ever!) and mostly unattested in written historical record so there simply isn't much to say about the actions or attitudes of the individuals within them.

Basically almost always your frontier is also their frontier, the people you are trying to replace. You aren't acting on your own, for example in the US the western expansion depended heavily on connection to sophisticated trade networks, financial technology, and straightforward military support. Individual action is only one small part of what makes this process work, but is the part most highlighted after the fact by the winning side.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#59

Post by redczar »

keiferski wrote: post #50
redczar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how people use the word now. He religiously did yoga every day. They religiously attended every game. That book became their bible. The phone is now everyone’s idol.

Again; that would be fine if the post wasn’t explicitly about comparing it to real religion and quoting scholars of religion.

That’s a fair point.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#60

Post by ben_w »

pjc50 wrote: post #19
keiferski wrote: post #6

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

> being obsessed with something to an irrational degree This phrase, nor the key words "obsessed" or "irrational", does not appear in the text. > Being distracted by your phone doesn’t come with an entire metaphysical picture about the nature of life and death, proper social roles, or most of the other things religious systems typically come with. I would argue that, for most people under 40 and quite a lot of people…

I think all that only makes phones a communications tool, not religious, nor idolatry.

People have been moralising, preaching, dogmatists in the Letters to the Editor since whenever "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" was coined — I don't think that's enough to have made The Daily Mail or The Sunday Times into an idol, nor the newspaper preference into a denomination (even if there's that quote from Yes Minister).

But we are busy making Golems and Húsvættir, and you are right that superstition still plagues us.

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