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Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

picower.mit.edu

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Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#51

Post by wizzwizz4 »

Aurornis wrote: post #43

When you see headlines (or hear podcasters) talk about dopamine and other neurotransmitters, remember that neurotransmitters are merely signaling molecules. The correct way to interpret this study is that dopamine is part of the signaling chain involved in fear extinction. The specific details of where, how, and when that dopamine moves through the brain are important. The wrong way to interpret these studies is to t…

(The "brains are computers" analogy needs to die, but) it's a bit like saying "hard drive activity increases when a file is being secure-erased". Yes, but also, no.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#52

Post by dns_snek »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #15
mountainriver wrote: post #8

Incoming cocaine therapy! Seriously though as someone who suffers from extreme anxiety I am eternally grateful for this kind of work. I would really like to see this combined with brain stimulation.

Well MDMA therapy is a real one and probably much more effective than cocaine for these purposes.

MDMA (or psilocybin) assisted psychotherapy to be specific. I don't think just taking these drugs has been shown to be an effective treatment :)

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#53

Post by sokka_h2otribe »

aantix wrote: post #32
corry wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Cold plunge - high but transient (last for hours). I do it in the morning, after my shower - start the day off right. 2. Exercise - short-term: increases dopamine, serotonin, and a bunch of other good stuff; long-term: increases dopamine receptor density. 3. Caffeine - while doesn't technically increase dopamine, it blocks adenosine receptors which indirectly increases dopamine signalling. But habitual use blunts…

Nicotine.

Be verrrry careful. 7 years and very very disregulated from nicotine. Getting better 1+ year later

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#54

Post by Aurornis »

voytec wrote: post #29

It's weird that there's no mention of adrenaline (epinephrine) and noradrenaline (norepinephrine). Dopamine is only a precursor for a broader chemical reaction. All three - with dopamine - play crucial roles in our bodies' stress response system, and definitely with fear reactions. Dopamine is just a neurotransmitter. tyrosine -> dopamine -> (beta-hydroxylase) -> noradrenaline -> Phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferas…

> Dopamine is only a precursor for a broader chemical reaction.

No, dopamine is a signaling molecule that participates directly in this functionality.

You're right that it's just a neurotransmitter, but the relative pathways about how they're produced are irrelevant for this study. They looked at how dopamine binds to certain receptors in certain parts of the brain under certain conditions.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#55

Post by cluckindan »

Aurornis wrote: post #44
roughly wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s interesting here is that in the drug treatment world it’s basically known that drug abuse is almost always a reaction to some kind of psychological trauma or disorder, and an awful lot of drugs (not just cocaine) play heavily with the dopamine pathways. The idea of dopamine as your brain’s signal that you’re safe fits about as neatly with that as can be. (Of course, like everything in biology, dopamine also do…

> in the drug treatment world it’s basically known that drug abuse is almost always a reaction to some kind of psychological trauma or disorder, This is not true in the professional world. People engage in drug use for many reasons, including pure recreation. Trauma can precede relapses or bouts of drug abuse, but it's not a universal explanation. There are a lot of pop-culture ideas that explain everything away as t…

>> in the drug treatment world it’s basically known that drug abuse is almost always a reaction to some kind of psychological trauma or disorder,

>This is not true in the professional world. People engage in drug use for many reasons, including pure recreation.

Drug use != drug abuse

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#57

Post by sieabahlpark »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #51
Aurornis wrote: post #43

When you see headlines (or hear podcasters) talk about dopamine and other neurotransmitters, remember that neurotransmitters are merely signaling molecules. The correct way to interpret this study is that dopamine is part of the signaling chain involved in fear extinction. The specific details of where, how, and when that dopamine moves through the brain are important. The wrong way to interpret these studies is to t…

(The "brains are computers" analogy needs to die , but) it's a bit like saying "hard drive activity increases when a file is being secure-erased". Yes , but also, no .

[dead]

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#58

Post by dboreham »

Aurornis wrote: post #43

When you see headlines (or hear podcasters) talk about dopamine and other neurotransmitters, remember that neurotransmitters are merely signaling molecules. The correct way to interpret this study is that dopamine is part of the signaling chain involved in fear extinction. The specific details of where, how, and when that dopamine moves through the brain are important. The wrong way to interpret these studies is to t…

Neurotransmitters are just "global variables" to the GPU. What the variable does or means is trained. Probably trained in the context of "I/O" signals. E.g. if the chemical also speeds up heart rate or breathing then that becomes part of the training data set. So Dopamine can potentially "do" different things in different examples of the same animal, if environmental training data is sufficiently different.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#59

Post by Aurornis »

abhisek wrote: post #5

I have a simple question. How do I control dopamine in "my" brain so that I can focus on "here and now" instead of HN and GitHub.

You'll get a lot of pop-science answers when you ask about dopamine. The less popular truth is that focus and self-discipline can't be reduced to a single chemical. It's not as simple as a level in your brain that goes up and down.

Side note: ADHD is more than just dopamine, too. The stimulant medications used for ADHD have strong norepinephrine activity. There are non-stimulant ADHD medications that act on norepinephrine primarily. There are even studies where some non-dopaminergic ADHD medications outperform stimulants in certain measures like memory by modulating adrenergic circuits.

The unpopular take is that you need to realize that "dopamine" is an abstraction for higher level behaviors. It's not "dopamine" leading you to be distracted or focus, it's a behavior that you need to train and develop over time. There's also a big emotional regulation component where it helps to understand why you're seeking distractions instead of doing the work. Is it to provide comfort? Avoid uncomfortable feelings that the work brings up? Perfectionism? Are you trying to recharge during working hours because you're not recharging outside of work properly? There are many angles that need to be pursued.

I would recommend starting with small steps. Look up Screen Time settings or plugins that will limit your time spent on HN if that's a problem. Start with a generous setting and lower it over time. If you slip, start again the next time.

Treat it like something you train. Start small, make a deliberate effort, and work on getting better slowly. If you expect to flip a switch and turn into the most diligent coder you can imagine, you're unlikely to succeed. If you set a goal to do 10 more minutes of work and 10 fewer minutes of HN before lunch, that's doable. Little wins will compound.

Re: Dopamine signals when a fear can be forgotten

#60

Post by Aurornis »

dboreham wrote: post #58
Aurornis wrote: post #43

When you see headlines (or hear podcasters) talk about dopamine and other neurotransmitters, remember that neurotransmitters are merely signaling molecules. The correct way to interpret this study is that dopamine is part of the signaling chain involved in fear extinction. The specific details of where, how, and when that dopamine moves through the brain are important. The wrong way to interpret these studies is to t…

Neurotransmitters are just "global variables" to the GPU. What the variable does or means is trained. Probably trained in the context of "I/O" signals. E.g. if the chemical also speeds up heart rate or breathing then that becomes part of the training data set. So Dopamine can potentially "do" different things in different examples of the same animal, if environmental training data is sufficiently different.

> Neurotransmitters are just "global variables" to the GPU.

No, neurotransmitters are very local.

Dopamine exists all throughout your body, including your bloodstream. The dopamine in one location is uncoupled from the dopamine in another location. The dopamine in your bloodstream can't get into your brain. Dopamine within the brain doesn't spill over into entirely different regions of the brain.

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