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Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

economist.com

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Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#51

Post by s1artibartfast »

amazingamazing wrote: post #10

private schools shouldn't be getting public money. shocking people disagree. yes they do research that benefits the public. so does Meta and Google, who don't get public money. public money should go to public schools. especially considering that the PIs who do the work in the private school scenario effectively boost the private school's clout with public money, but these private schools do not increase accessibilit…

This is the government paying for a service.

Should a private cement company get public money for delivering cement?

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#52

Post by nine_k »

Kapura wrote: post #11

This framing conveniently ignores the question of whether the president should have the authority to single-handedly withhold funding for universities, broadly considered to be one of the foundational pillars of America's strength in the 20th century. While I think it's interesting and answers the specific question it raises, it's wild that the economist has just accepted that the president has dictatorial powers.

This is a fair question, but it's being asked a lot already.

Let's imagine that completely legitimate circumstances lead to the US Government stopping the stream of grants to the Ivy League universities. How would they cope, given their enormous endowments that generate significant interest? This question is asked much less, and the answer is much less obvious. Hence the value of TFA.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#53

Post by mandmandam »

tencentshill wrote: post #49
steveBK123 wrote: post #9

I am not a fan of the orange man. But I think its an interesting question if the feds should be funding rich Ivies with small numbers of students vs more efficient state universities which educated 100s of thousands each at a fraction of the cost per student. All of the Ivy League combined educate 65k undergrads. SUNY by comparison educates 5x that many at a tuition of 1/5th to 1/10th depending on in/out of state and…

It's one of the only ways people can still get into "The Club" without having a lineage of wealthy connections.

Not a selling point.

The Ivies do a hell of a lot more for 'The Club' than for the people not in it.

(To be clear, I don't think giving Trump the authority to pull hundreds of millions in funding if they teach things he doesn't like, or allow anti-genocide protests etc, is in any way a solution to the above issue.)

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#54

Post by ToucanLoucan »

steveBK123 wrote: post #47
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BUT, I think the constant focus in the press on the Ivys when we talk about education is a huge distraction from how we are actually going to improve access, quality & cost to education in this county. Because the entire discussion around colleges of all sizes, who gets to go and who pays has been turned entirely into yet another fucking stupid culture war issue by Republicans, putting rural/tradesman "real" Americ…

RE: our parents working their way through college, I think two things happened at least, yes. Reagan gutted education spending. But also the bifurcation of blue vs white collar wages really accelerated through the last 40 years. That is the spread between what my dad made working at a record store vs the professor/admin staff/etc at his college made increased tremendously. Think about it - minimum wage at federal lev…

> But also the bifurcation of blue vs white collar wages really accelerated through the last 40 years. That is the spread between what my dad made working at a record store vs the professor/admin staff/etc at his college made increased tremendously. Think about it - minimum wage at federal level has only doubled in the last 40 years, while some quick googling looks like professors make 5-10x what they made 40 years ago (as most white collar has).

Which can also be blamed on Reagan specifically and the larger "trickle down" movement he inspired, which gutted protections for unionized labor and badmouthed unions in general so they became a dirty word in American politics, only very recently finally getting back at least some credibility.

That old meme comes to mind where someone is like "my hobby is putting Reagan's face on graphs of economic data the year he got elected" and watching everything just go completely tits up after that point.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#55

Post by nine_k »

steveBK123 wrote: post #41
School-Cotton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feds aren’t funding ivies for the purpose of education, they’re funding researchers who happen to work at the ivies to do research.

Multiple people pointing this out, and absolutely right. Some question though of how all the research grants do kind of cross-subsidize the education in a way as it pays for research professors, their graduate staff, etc? Otherwise why do we collocate research and teaching?

> why do we collocate research and teaching?

Because we want the same scientists who do, or recently did, advanced research to teach students? Because we want students to be involved in actual real genuine cutting-edge research? I suppose this is the logic.

As a student back in the day I worked in a university lab, and it was pretty interesting to play a role in solving problems that don't have answers in the end of a textbook.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#56

Post by amazingamazing »

djtriptych wrote: post #13
amazingamazing wrote: post #10

private schools shouldn't be getting public money. shocking people disagree. yes they do research that benefits the public. so does Meta and Google, who don't get public money. public money should go to public schools. especially considering that the PIs who do the work in the private school scenario effectively boost the private school's clout with public money, but these private schools do not increase accessibilit…

Meta and Google definitely get a ton of public money.

they shouldn't.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#57

Post by amazingamazing »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #12
amazingamazing wrote: post #10

private schools shouldn't be getting public money. shocking people disagree. yes they do research that benefits the public. so does Meta and Google, who don't get public money. public money should go to public schools. especially considering that the PIs who do the work in the private school scenario effectively boost the private school's clout with public money, but these private schools do not increase accessibilit…

Meta and Google absolutely do get public money, for another commonly known example, every single one of Elon Musk's companies have gotten significant funding paid for through our taxes — government contracts, subsidies, grants, you name it

those also shouldn't - at least without the government getting an equity stake.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#58

Post by amazingamazing »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #51
amazingamazing wrote: post #10

private schools shouldn't be getting public money. shocking people disagree. yes they do research that benefits the public. so does Meta and Google, who don't get public money. public money should go to public schools. especially considering that the PIs who do the work in the private school scenario effectively boost the private school's clout with public money, but these private schools do not increase accessibilit…

This is the government paying for a service. Should a private cement company get public money for delivering cement?

> This is the government paying for a service.

a service public schools can do.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#59

Post by s1artibartfast »

amazingamazing wrote: post #58
s1artibartfast wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the government paying for a service. Should a private cement company get public money for delivering cement?

> This is the government paying for a service. a service public schools can do.

not as well. Grants are a competitive process.

When building a highway, the government should put out notice and buy the best offering.

Im not sure why you would want government buying sub-par research just because it comes from a public school

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#60

Post by micromacrofoot »

amazingamazing wrote: post #57
micromacrofoot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta and Google absolutely do get public money, for another commonly known example, every single one of Elon Musk's companies have gotten significant funding paid for through our taxes — government contracts, subsidies, grants, you name it

those also shouldn't - at least without the government getting an equity stake.

don't really disagree, but also this is a "get money out of politics" level change — next to impossible because there are piles of money to be made by the people in charge
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