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Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

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Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#51

The world needs an alternative to Starlink yesterday. If you criticize Musk on X, the self-proclaimed “free speech absolutist” will reduce distribution of your posts [1]. We don't want someone like that owning critical internet infrastructure. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/23/business/elon...

While I agree, I also think we have to contend that this is a bigger issue than Musk and Bezos. Fundamentally, this is a global issue. There's only so much space and the laws of physics can be unkind.

Given that, I'd argue that critical infrastructure like this is concerning in the hands of any individual entity.

It would be concerning even if exclusively controlled by Mr Rodgers[0]. There's an opportunity here to build a global coalition and mutual partnership like never before. All parties benefit by sharing. And all parties MUST settle for inferior infrastructure by not working together. There's no way around this... the laws of physics are just a constraint that can't be overcome...

My main comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43827615

[0] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/mister-rogers

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Bezos preferable to Elon?

It doesn’t have to be Bezos, but competition is preferable to monopolies

Unfortunately in this case I think we have a natural monopoly. In such cases, I do not think control should be in any individuals' hands.

  Longer comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43827615

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#53

The world needs an alternative to Starlink yesterday. If you criticize Musk on X, the self-proclaimed “free speech absolutist” will reduce distribution of your posts [1]. We don't want someone like that owning critical internet infrastructure. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/23/business/elon...

[flagged]

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#54
post #36

The world needs an alternative to Starlink yesterday. If you criticize Musk on X, the self-proclaimed “free speech absolutist” will reduce distribution of your posts [1]. We don't want someone like that owning critical internet infrastructure. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/23/business/elon...

The problem is there’s no indication Bezos will be any better. He was more than happy to bend the knee to Trump. What we really need is the European Union to fund a global competitor.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#55
post #6

Why are these going up on ULA rockets and not Blue Origin?

New Glen is their orbital rocket but it is not ready yet. Hopefully it will be ready for some of the launches, but it must hurt owning a rocket company and having to use another companies to launch your satellites. From the project web page "Project Kuiper has secured 80 launches from Arianespace, Blue Origin, SpaceX, and United Launch Alliance, and we have options for additional launches with Blue Origin, providing…

It's worth mentioning too that BO is following the same strategy as SpaceX (and others), in becoming their own customers. Lesson learned from the 90's launch vehicle boom. Companies couldn't scale without customers, it's a vicious feedback loop. No customers because prices are too high, can't bring prices down without more customers. Either you have to become your own customer or you have to bootstrap. It's a long way to bootstrap and an expensive industry.

Though using ULA is kinda a bridge to the looking deadline[0]. So if they can't get satellites up now they won't have this means for being their own customer in the future.

[0] https://news.satnews.com/2025/03/19/project-kuiper-facing-re...

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t have to be Bezos, but competition is preferable to monopolies

Unfortunately in this case I think we have a natural monopoly. In such cases, I do not think control should be in any individuals' hands. Longer comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43827615

Wouldn't it be possible to privatize space in some way like land, and then enforce any damages to neighbor's 'land'/orbit?. Might involve some easements for 'right of way' into higher / intersecting orbit.

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#57
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hilarious hearing family/friends who I have invited to remote areas shit-talk Starlink while using it, because we have no great other choice. Personally I will buy internet from Satan himself if it works and for the right price.

Are you saying this includes the price of not being allowed to criticize the CEO?

This got me wondering who the CEO of Starlink is. I could not find it anywhere.

I know who the CEO of the 100% owner of Starlink is, but not Starlink itself. Do they even have one?

IIRC most states when filing an LLC for private equity require a president but not a CEO.

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#58
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of rural areas have small-scale wireless ISPs at 10-100mbps. You just have to install a directional antenna on your roof. This doesn't work once you get really remote, nor does fiber. In any case none of them beat the experience of pulling an antenna out of a box and it pretty much just working.

These services are generally terrible compared to Starlink.

Maybe 15 years ago, but not for at least 10 years, and definitely 5 in most markets.

I'd take fiber -> Taara -> Tarana 3.65 CBRS any day of the week over any LEO. Way faster, way lower latency, and way lower total cost to deploy. Also scales massively better.

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#59

The world needs an alternative to Starlink yesterday. If you criticize Musk on X, the self-proclaimed “free speech absolutist” will reduce distribution of your posts [1]. We don't want someone like that owning critical internet infrastructure. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/23/business/elon...

[flagged]

Fortunately FOX News is not the only news source. We don't want Starlink to be the only satellite internet serving rural areas. Is that hard to understand?

Re: Amazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites in bid to take on Starlink

#60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately in this case I think we have a natural monopoly. In such cases, I do not think control should be in any individuals' hands. Longer comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43827615

Wouldn't it be possible to privatize space in some way like land, and then enforce any damages to neighbor's 'land'/orbit?. Might involve some easements for 'right of way' into higher / intersecting orbit.

I mean you could... but good luck getting global agreement on that and realistically no. It is a thing that sounds nice and could look nice on paper but real world complications will result in issues pretty fast. Sounds like a great way to start a war as treaty violations will be inevitable and unavoidable.

If you divide up by altitude: it requires significant negotiation to place a vehicle (an arbitrary spacecraft or satellite) in any location.

If you partition by location (e.g. project current airspace upwards): your vehicles can't abide by these rules. They must orbit the planet. They will eventually go over most countries.

If you partition by orbit: you have to contend with precession. Craft drift[0,1]. This is because Earth is an oblate spheroid and not a sphere. It is also caused by angular momentum itself, so your orbit rotates. You will start in one and over time move into another. There's not much you can do about this and it is quite costly to maneuver (constant orbital maneuvering means an exponential increase in weight, complexity, and cost). Remember, the Earth does not rotate around in its axis in a fixed period of time, nor does it around the sun.

So really the laws of physics have you in a bind. Things are constantly moving and changing. So even the best laid plans will eventually lead to violation (and thus conflict) even through no ill-intent.

This is actually why a lot of (especially "hard") Sci-Fi has treated space travel as a global unification period. Because it becomes necessary in order to avoid conflict. This was a bigger discussion in the 60's and 70's when the initial space ventures were occurring and in the public eye, but has naturally drifted out of conversation as the underlying motivation similarly did. Though it stayed in conversation for domain experts who frequently content with this still.

tldr: No. Physics is a bitch

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nodal_precession

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsidal_precession

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