Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

thefoggiest.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 237 posts

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#51

Post by gf000 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #22
OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #3

This website is hostile to scrolling on mobile, I've never seen a worse UX pattern in my life. But for me, I see so much potential in Linux phones, but after waiting decades for the Linux desktop to pickup, I won't hold my breath.

“The year of the Linux desktop” has always been a stupid statement because it never quantifies what the success criteria is. For example, we now have first class games support via Proton. First class application support via Electron and other web technologies. Linux used in schools via Chromebooks. Etc Linux was never going to be Windows-killer but I’m constantly amazed at just how easy it is to use vanilla GNU Linux…

The Linux kernel is a beast of an engine at the heart of all sorts of things, from small to large.

But the "desktop" itself refers to the GNU Linux userspace, which has plenty to criticize it for (with that said, I personally find windows to be worse on many counts). Desktop OSs are a generation behind mobile OSs, and they have a really hard time making that jump, with possibly OSX being the closest to it. They have a terribly insecure "security" model (compare the number of vulnerabilities per user for a desktop OS vs mobile - especially considering that they something like Linux desktop is barely targeted compared to the billions of android users) where your user usually runs your applications - this worked in the age of huge servers with lots of terminal users connected, where the number of processes running for=as the user were readily inspectable (due to their low number and being directly started by the user). But with applications we have tens of thousands of threads/processes running simultaneously. The processes are running by me (and thus can do everything I can), but not directly for me. The sane thing to do would be to run them in a sandbox, basically what android does (runs them as generated "system" users, and has a well-defined IPC architecture to cut holes only where necessary).

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#52

Post by guappa »

gf000 wrote: post #23
Tepix wrote: post #8

Isn't every Android phone a Linux phone? OK, i guess we want something that is less encumbered and more transparent with more digital sovereignty for the user than the Android that we get from the various big phone vendors. What's the difference between an AOSP Android phone and a Linux phone? For me, there is no substantial difference. The Android based phone is likely to be way more usable the various "Linux phones…

> What's the difference between an AOSP Android phone and a Linux phone? One is actually working without draining the battery in an hour and has an actually working security model. Sorry for the tongue in cheek reply, but I am in complete agreement with you.

> actually working security model.

?

If you use a famous and popular vendor like Samsung, if you're really really lucky your 0-day will take 9 months to be fixed.

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#53

Post by notpushkin »

greatgib wrote: post #35
genewitch wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so your are forced to connect with your Google account Slight adjustment to your verbiage: you are forced to interact with Google, but I don't recall having to give a phone number for emulators. Then again, one didn't need a microsofr account to use windows until recently, so I might be wrong. Tablets and things like x86 android exist so I don't know that Google can enforce phone numbers anyhow, if you want a separ…

It is not that you have to "interact" with Google the problem, in the sense of interacting like downloading an app. You can use the Aurora store, but once you try to use the app, the app itself will redirect you to an oauth2 login for your Google account, the kind that is associating your "phone"/Google service globally with your Google account. And this despite the fact that I will only use password login for openai…

Aurora Store also runs a bunch of their own throwaway Google accounts you can use (the “anonymous” option on the sign-in screen). Usually works great, though sometimes takes a few tries to get a working account.

Many apps do require passing the integrity check, though, but microG is getting better on that front (and IIRC you don’t need a Google account for that).

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#54

Post by lucb1e »

amaccuish wrote: post #15
Nux wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do this routinely. Check devices supported by 3rd party distros like LineageOS which out of the box have no Google services. Ironically Pixel phones are very well supported. Xiaomi, OnePlus, too. There are quite a few: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/

It should be said though that only Pixel, Fairphone, and maybe some Motorolas support relocking the bootloader with a custom OS. Without that ability, anyone can plug in to your phone and write whatever they want to the internal flash and your phone will be none the wiser.

Happens to me all the time. Also on laptops, secureboot is such a life saver any time you're out and about

...it's sure nice this exists and is available to anyone but it's not seriously a risk if you're not of interest to people who are willing to physically show up and bug your hardware in a way that requires quite a bit of preparation

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#55

Post by greatgib »

lucb1e wrote: post #36
greatgib wrote: post #19

If you want a Linux phone that could be your daily driver, I would highly recommend the furiphone of furilabs ( https://furilabs.com/ ). I got one from the Fosdem and it is truly amazing! Contrary to previous things I tried, like the pinephone, this one is really totally usable for everyday with everything that you could need (phone, SMS, 4g/5g, ...). Especially, for one time it has a very good camera, on par with so…

Since the shop is super slow and intermittently giving a "Error establishing a database connection", for those having trouble: it's just above 600€ (base 550$ + VAT + shipping). At 17x8cm it's among the largest phones you can get, competing with e.g. the Ulefone 18T Ultra (the one with the FLIR camera, but Android). It has a headphone jack (big plus) but at that size, I just can't use that sadly. This glowing review…

Indeed, on the bad side it is a little large (like the biggest iphone I guess but can still dit in a jean pocket), a little heavy, battery life average, and not perfect, like with the expectable rough edges that makes it a developer/tech enthousiast thing but not general public.

But, compared to the pinephone and co, this is the first one that could be used as a daily driver, without another read android backup phone. And it works well out of the box, without firmware flashing or any console/dev operation.

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#56

Post by guappa »

quotemstr wrote: post #12
forty wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GrapheneOS only supports a few specific Google phones, so it's not an option for most cases

It still makes zero sense to take the XDG/dbus/whatever stack and make it run on a phone, suboptimally, when AOSP is right there and has already solved all the thousands of integration issues you'll run into --- plus, it's already free software. NIH is the only rationale for the "Linux" phone thing and it's why it will be forever fringe. People working on "Linux" phones as anything more than a diversion (why not play…

Try getting a patch into android vs getting a patch into a debian package and tell me how it's the same thing :D

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#57

Post by Jhsto »

I have been thinking daily driving Linux phone just to manage smartphone addiction. My first step was to get rid of my MacBook. Now, a year later, I think I'm ready to get rid of the Apple Watch. With the watch, it has been surprising how much you think you need to record your HR and workouts -- but it's just another bogus number that you don't need. Later the year I think I'll be finally ready for the phone. This would happen by getting an iPad mini first, which would stay at home while I go to work with the phone only. I think the hard class of apps to get rid of is mainly "Travel", plus password manager (I use passage but the transition will take time) + Find My. But travel is very much planned in my life, so for those occasions I can take my iPad mini with me.

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#59

Post by instagib »

immibis wrote: post #37
Uptrenda wrote: post #30

Good luck. Almost every service you need for a smart phone to be "smart" anything requires being part of the Google or Apple botnet. Yeah, you can install whatever crap you like on your phone. Maybe it will do SMS? Kewl. Want maps, mobile banking, 2-factor auth, different password managers, music streaming, and so on... good luck without one of the app stores. Also, being unplugged sometimes means your phone won't ev…

You can do a lot of this on the web. Hang on, did you just cite 2-factor auth as something that requires a proprietary app? And password managers?

Some countries have a high number of scams. You need to physically go to a bank, verify multiple forms of id, facial scan, get their app with facial recognition, and hope your face does not deviate when traveling. A relative gained 20lbs traveling and facial recognition failed. They had to ask a friend to pay their bills and go back to their home country to re-verify everything. Some companies require specific apps for authentication too.

Re: Daily driving a Linux phone, but why?

#60

Post by mft_ »

But why, indeed.

Years ago, I met someone (through another friend) who worked in CS, and was super into digital privacy. He was the first person I knew to run a Linux phone, for privacy reasons. He tried to pay for as much as possible by cash, and maintained his accounts manually on paper. The only way to contact him was by text message (intermittently, unreliably) or via a specific client using the Matrix protocol. My friend and I both installed the client to be able to contact him and maintain a friendship.

After a few months, we both lost contact with him simultaneously: something was updated in the client, and it was impossible to re-establish contact with him without a F2F interaction (="privacy"). Sadly, he was also uncontactable by text message. For both of us, the friendship simply ceased to exist.

My reflection is that such things --as with many things in life-- are on a spectrum. At some point on the spectrum, as you head towards the extreme end, your position on that spectrum (be it voluntary or --as with disease-- involuntary) start to impair your ability to live (what might be considered) a normal functional life. I'd also hazard that moving towards that extreme end of the spectrum beings increasing small gains, coupled with increasingly large downsides.

I'm not suggesting that running a pure Linux phone is extreme, but it's definitely in the middle zone where there are definite downsides.

Post reply on HN