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FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

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Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#51

Post by 9283409232 »

m463 wrote: post #48
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #16

Similar to CA's requirement for online cancellations if a subscription is purchased online, there should be a rule that requires the same amount of steps to cancel as it takes to subscribe . Yes it could still be gamed, but anyone who's worked on user funnels knows that every added step reduces conversion, so it would be self-balancing.

"same amount of steps to cancel as it takes to subscribe" I wonder... what if you artificially padded the signup process with feel-good stuff? - screen: Did you know, Scarlett also uses this service? - screen: Since you are signing up, we are adding a Free 10% off voucher for - screen: Our customer Service Representative (attactive person) is always standing by! etc... - screen : click [Yes] to sign up!

This is a good way to lose a sale. Like the person you are responding to said, I have done user funnel work and every step between the desire to purchase and completing the purchase is dropping users out the funnel. This is the idea behind retailers like Amazon introducing one click purchase. If someone has the impulse to buy you want to get as out of their way as possible.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#52

Post by ceejayoz »

gruez wrote: post #17
laweijfmvo wrote: post #5

> Users can be forced to navigate as many as 23 screens and take as many as 32 actions to cancel. I complain about dark patterns _a_lot_ but this one takes the cake!

I'd take that with a grain of salt. I've went through the process to cancel an uber one trial recently, and I would say it's not anywhere near "23 screens". Maybe the user in question got unlucky and got hit with all the A/B trials, and they're being super generous with what counts as a "screen", but the process was relatively painless.

I mean, in my case, I was literally forbidden from canceling. I got a screen saying I couldn’t cancel within 24 hours after the monthly renewal.

Very clearly intended to combat “oh shit I need to cancel that one” when the charge shows up in hopes you forget again.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#53

Post by NoTeslaThrow »

I can't express how angry it makes me that I only had access to taxis for a couple years in the city before they were all pushed out and rates were jacked, screwing both the customer and the driver providing the value. It will take decades to reverse this course even if everyone has decent intentions, and shareholders rarely do.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#54

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

reverendsteveii wrote: post #42
janalsncm wrote: post #23

I use virtual credit cards for most of my subscriptions. If I can’t cancel via normal means, I cancel the card. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. Can’t say whether this is the recommended method for all services but it works for me.

I tried that with my real card and it turns out that if you report a card lost/stolen and get a replacement behind the scenes your bank will still forward some transactions from the old card to the new one without having to update

Many years ago, I had an XBox 360 with a valid credit card attached. With a ten year+ gap of service, I then connected my account to a new Xbox. Somehow Microsoft was able to still use and charge a ten year old credit card account even though I have had many replacement cards in the intervening years.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#55

Post by tristor »

paxys wrote: post #40

The latest dark pattern in all these apps is that they will mess up your order/ride and then "refund" you in the form of account credit. There's no way to actually get your money back. Trying to contact support results in an endless loop of help screens and chatbots. If you are able to figure out the magic combination of options that will get you to a support agent they will say "sure we will refund your money" but t…

The worst part is I have never figured out a way to spend any of my Uber credits. I have hundreds of dollars in Uber credits I've accumulated over the years, and I regularly use Uber, and yet have never spent any credits.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#56

Post by NoTeslaThrow »

bradly wrote: post #34
laweijfmvo wrote: post #5

> Users can be forced to navigate as many as 23 screens and take as many as 32 actions to cancel. I complain about dark patterns _a_lot_ but this one takes the cake!

Both Uber and Lyft's pay-to-not-wait is about as dark as I've encountered recently. It makes it extremely hard to get an reliable wait time.

Not to mention they don't refund you you when they fail to deliver the car on expected arrival.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#57

Post by hammock »

paxys wrote: post #40

The latest dark pattern in all these apps is that they will mess up your order/ride and then "refund" you in the form of account credit. There's no way to actually get your money back. Trying to contact support results in an endless loop of help screens and chatbots. If you are able to figure out the magic combination of options that will get you to a support agent they will say "sure we will refund your money" but t…

Submit a credit card chargeback. They cannot charge you for a service not rendered

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#58

Post by teeray »

paxys wrote: post #40

The latest dark pattern in all these apps is that they will mess up your order/ride and then "refund" you in the form of account credit. There's no way to actually get your money back. Trying to contact support results in an endless loop of help screens and chatbots. If you are able to figure out the magic combination of options that will get you to a support agent they will say "sure we will refund your money" but t…

The worst thing is that you can't even do a chargeback, otherwise you get banned. There is no recourse for the consumer. If this is their solution for fighting chargebacks, they should get banned from accepting Visa / MC / AMEX.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#59

Post by tomp »

scoofy wrote: post #32
cogman10 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the process? In my mind it should be something like 3 or 4 screens/prompts max. Account (1) -> Cancel (2) -> Are you sure (3) -> Why did you cancel (4).

I’ve literally experienced (not with Uber, probably around 2010): 1: Account 2: Cancel 3: Call this number. 4: Call number. 5: Welcome to Customer Service press… … …press 9 to cancel. 6: We need to confirm who you are. Give birth date, etc. 7: Are you sure? 8: Agent gets on the line. 9: Why do you want to cancel? 10: We are offering you a discount to continue and not cancel, how about that? 11: Cancel 12: Are you sur…

Last time I tried to cancel a service (mobile phone, Three, in the UK) they offered me the service for 5£ (it's normally 20£ or more).

I should (pretend to) cancel more often!

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#60

Post by NoTeslaThrow »

cogman10 wrote: post #41
gruez wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>3: Call this number. For Uber? In the handful of times I've canceled uber one trials I've never seen this. It's always through the app. Not even the FTC complaint alleges this.

Are you in Cali? They have a state law that says "if you can sign up online you have to be able to cancel online". I ran into this with a NYTimes subscription I tried to cancel. They detected I wasn't in a state with such protections and removed the cancellation options while not providing a way to cancel. Made things real hard to shutdown.

Presumably they're specifically referring to uber rather than the broader conversation about dark patterns in canceling. I, too, remember how hard it was to cancel ZipCar—I think I just ended up closing the credit account it was backed by because I couldn't successfully navigate the labyrinth of phone-based customer support to cancel.
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