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H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

reason.com

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Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#51

Post by learc83 »

slurgfest wrote: post #42
pchivers wrote: post #11

>If heroin really is "so good," why does it have such a tiny share of the illegal drug market? Marijuana is more than 45 times as popular. One possible reason is that people are squeamish about needles and uncomfortable consuming drugs intravenously.

I am not a fan of marijuana (or any street drug) but it is incredibly hard to mess it up. It has a fantastic 'therapeutic index' - a big fat window between the dosages where it starts having useful effects and those where it starts potentially harming you. (anecdotally I would wonder about impact on lifestyle, but killing yourself with pot would be pretty tough, and expensive) This is a big contrast from serious down…

"but killing yourself with pot would be pretty tough, and expensive"

It seems to be impossible to actually overdose from the THC contained in marijuana. No one has actually managed to kill a large mammal with THC, but they have managed to kill small rodents.

Extrapolating up it seems that you might be able to obtain a lethal dose of THC by consuming somewhere between 1/3 of your body weight and 1500 lbs of marijuana (all at once).

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#52

Post by tsahyt »

slurgfest wrote: post #42
pchivers wrote: post #11

>If heroin really is "so good," why does it have such a tiny share of the illegal drug market? Marijuana is more than 45 times as popular. One possible reason is that people are squeamish about needles and uncomfortable consuming drugs intravenously.

I am not a fan of marijuana (or any street drug) but it is incredibly hard to mess it up. It has a fantastic 'therapeutic index' - a big fat window between the dosages where it starts having useful effects and those where it starts potentially harming you. (anecdotally I would wonder about impact on lifestyle, but killing yourself with pot would be pretty tough, and expensive) This is a big contrast from serious down…

> killing yourself with pot would be pretty tough, and expensive

As far as I know there's not a single death directly caused by the substance yet.

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#53

Post by njs12345 »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #28
ilaksh wrote: post #20

I can't see any good reason why someone would go to so much trouble to defend heroin, other than to assume that this is some kind of PR requested by establishment and/or intelligence groups which profit from heroin grown in places like Afghanistan (or, in the previous era, India).

Reason has an agenda they are trying to spread to you. They don't want to live in a world where something the government regulates, actually is dangerous. They want to have their cake and eat it to. "People should be able to destroy their bodies if they want. Oh yeah, and since that is not very convincing to you, here's some statistically insignificant reasons why heroin doesn't hurt you anyway, neener neener. Oh, an…

There are plenty of people who aren't libertarians at all who disagree with the War on Drugs. I don't think it's inherently immoral for the government to regulate hard drugs, but pragmatically I think as a policy it's a failure, with negative consequences for everybody..

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#54

Post by andrewfelix »

ZoFreX wrote: post #47
andrewfelix wrote: post #21

Had a good friend who was educated, healthy and ran his own business. He died from an heroin overdose shortly after selling off most of his business assets to pay for his addiction. Yes, this is one anecdote. But I bet you my anecdote is a fuck load more common than that of the successful New York business man cited in the article.

How would you possibly know how many of your friends use heroin responsibly and in secret with no effect on their lives (a la NY business man in the article)?

That argument is a logical absurdity. You cannot assert a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false.

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#55

Post by ZoFreX »

andrewfelix wrote: post #46
lincolnq wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selection and availability effects should account for this, though.

It might, but there are thousands of people with awful stories about Heroin. Negative effects extend far beyond the individual user, entire communities can be crushed by it's use.

Most of the effects that extend beyond the user are more a facet of prohibition than the drug use itself, no?

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#56

Post by ZoFreX »

andrewfelix wrote: post #54
ZoFreX wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you possibly know how many of your friends use heroin responsibly and in secret with no effect on their lives (a la NY business man in the article)?

That argument is a logical absurdity. You cannot assert a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false.

I'm not asserting anything, other than that anecdotes are not data.

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#57

Post by njs12345 »

andrewfelix wrote: post #21

Had a good friend who was educated, healthy and ran his own business. He died from an heroin overdose shortly after selling off most of his business assets to pay for his addiction. Yes, this is one anecdote. But I bet you my anecdote is a fuck load more common than that of the successful New York business man cited in the article.

Would your friend have died of a heroin overdose if heroin was easily available to maintain his habit and regulated? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin_assisted_treatment

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#58

Post by Deestan »

Disregarding the pro/con heroin issue, this article also illuminates that anti-drug campaigns are having a "facts crisis". If you say "x drug is bad for you", you should also be able to say why and how.

To memory-quote from a pregnancy leaflet we got a few years back:

- You should avoid drinking alcohol during pregnancy, because it can cause harm to the child's nervous system in the early stages.

- You should avoid smoking tobacco during pregnancy, because it can cause oxygen deficiency and low muscle mass in the child.

- You should avoid smoking hashish during pregnancy, because it is illegal.

I'm not exaggerating - that was literally all the evils of hashish they could list.

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#59

Post by andrewfelix »

ZoFreX wrote: post #55
andrewfelix wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might, but there are thousands of people with awful stories about Heroin. Negative effects extend far beyond the individual user, entire communities can be crushed by it's use.

Most of the effects that extend beyond the user are more a facet of prohibition than the drug use itself, no?

That is another point in entirely. But yes you are quite right. That is true for most drugs and how they are consumed.

Re: H - The surprising truth about heroin and addiction

#60

Post by sverige »

Having struggled with addiction off and on for more than half my life, I would say that the opiates are some of the more enjoyable drugs, though they can be quite difficult to kick, and the legal and financial risks are very high. Cigarettes are far harder to kick. And pot isn't nearly as harmless as most make it out to be, since it literally makes people stupid with regular long-term use.

I kicked everything except cigarettes for nearly 20 years, then went back to some of them during a difficult time. I was hooked again for longer than I intended, and it was much harder to kick again when I was older. (I've been abstinent again for some years now, including cigarettes (after 30 years ... finally!!).)

The vast majority of those who experiment never become addicted. But for those who do, it is very costly, and fatal frequently enough that it is not worth the risk, at least from my minority experience perspective. There are lots of other ways to relieve stress and/or alter your consciousness.

I have a libertarian bent, and think drug laws have mostly accomplished the militarization of the police forces in America. They certainly have not reduced the availability of high-quality drugs. But that does not mean I agree with the idea that using heroin is just some harmless fun to be had from time to time. Reserve that category for things like skydiving or working out in a gym or getting a massage or writing some code.

(What's that? Writing code isn't fun, it's something you have to do? Maybe it's time for you to kick the habit then.)

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