Also worth checking out is the recent release of RedwoodSDK: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43657215
Oh good, they finally realized GraphQL was holding them back.
Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
51–60 of 161 posts
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think, at least as the creator, I've seen the "fight" be MPA vs SPA. IMO, both are wrong. It's about state management. MOST state lives in the backend but you still need fine grain reactivity on the frontend. On the number line between React and HTMX; Datastar is complex :)
Data may live in the backend, but it is used more in the frontend. Having it local (in memory, or even indexeddb) makes more responsive apps, especially if it's a typical CRUD app with 70/30 or more split between reads/writes.
Where the data is used most will vary by app. Some applications are really heavy in the backend, dealing with integrations to other systems, file processing, etc. and the UI is for setting up all that processing, some workflows and business logic.
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#53https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K71AyAF6E4
I found this talk really interesting. It's a cool framework for very interactive applications.
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#54Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't half the point of htmx to allow for adaptive web design (ie, if js fails to load or is disabled it can still function via the form submission)?
It seems like Datastar is doing away with that entirely and binding the UI more tightly to JavaScript to function correctly.
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#55Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't half the point of htmx to allow for adaptive web design (ie, if js fails to load or is disabled it can still function via the form submission)? It seems like Datastar is doing away with that entirely and binding the UI more tightly to JavaScript to function correctly.
I'm very much of the opinion that progressive enhancement leads to lowest common denominator and you should just do a static MPA (nothing wrong with that). Modern browsers are a combination of HTML+CSS+JS and you should just embrace that as what modern hypermedia is. We aren't fighting against the browser. If you want just links and forms, you should just do that and have less code to maintain. But in my experience that's not what most are looking for in their apps.
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#56Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't half the point of htmx to allow for adaptive web design (ie, if js fails to load or is disabled it can still function via the form submission)? It seems like Datastar is doing away with that entirely and binding the UI more tightly to JavaScript to function correctly.
I'm very much of the opinion that progressive enhancement leads to lowest common denominator and you should just do a static MPA (nothing wrong with that). Modern browsers are a combination of HTML+CSS+JS and you should just embrace that as what modern hypermedia is. We aren't fighting against the browser. If you want just links and forms, you should just do that and have less code to maintain. But in my experience t…
> But in my experience that's not what most are looking for in their apps.
What are they looking for (in your experience)?
In my experience, most people use an app (website) to solve some problem (buy something, pay taxes, whatever). They care more about functionality than how smooth the loading animation and transition was. Progressive enhancement seems like a very good way to build something people actually use (and rely on).
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#57The web framework of the future is for better or for worse what Vercel and YouTubers talk about. Original thinking is sorely lacking in the majority of the web dev community.
Guess we just gotta get some new YouTubers to cover other things then :)
There was a funny convo about this a bit
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#58I'll just leave this here. At first you might be afraid, or petrified. But then you'll realize how you cannot live without this by your side.
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#59This matches 100% my experience and thoughts.
I really enjoy HTMX and it's a blessing for my small-scale reactivity web interfaces, but I can immediately tell: "Well, this is hard to organize in a way that will scale with complexity well. It works great now, but I can tell where are the limits". And when I had to add alpine.js to do client-side reactivity, it immediately was obvious that I'd love to have both sides (backend and frontent) unified.
Still need more time opportunities to roll some stuff with datastar in it, but ATM I'm convinced datastar is the way to go.
For reference, my typical "web tech stack": Rust, axum, maud, datastar, redb.
Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm very much of the opinion that progressive enhancement leads to lowest common denominator and you should just do a static MPA (nothing wrong with that). Modern browsers are a combination of HTML+CSS+JS and you should just embrace that as what modern hypermedia is. We aren't fighting against the browser. If you want just links and forms, you should just do that and have less code to maintain. But in my experience t…
> But in my experience that's not what most are looking for in their apps. What are they looking for (in your experience)? In my experience, most people use an app (website) to solve some problem (buy something, pay taxes, whatever). They care more about functionality than how smooth the loading animation and transition was. Progressive enhancement seems like a very good way to build something people actually use (an…
My impression is people really like frameworks because they all ultimately end up with a plugin system. Then the use of the "the framework" really just becomes "gluing a bunch of plugins together."
I've never liked where those code bases ultimately end up, which seems to be just a twisted maze of hacky solutions to make a bunch of poorly aligned code to work together.