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Playing in the Creek

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Re: Playing in the Creek

#51
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I’m not smart enough, or too tired to decode these metaphors, so I plugged the essay into ChatGPT and got a clear explanation from 4o.

Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Or is it more similar to what people do when they see a new word and reach for their dictionary?

> Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles?

Couldn't this very same argument have been used against any form of mental augmentation, like written language and computers? Or, in an extended interpretation, against any form of physical augmentation, like tool use?

Re: Playing in the Creek

#52

It's a nice article. In a way though it kind of bypasses what I see as the main takeaways. It's not about AI development, it's about something mentioned earlier in the article: "make as much money as I can". The problems that we see with AI have little to do with AI "development", they have to do with AI marketing and promulgation. If the author had gone ahead and dammed the creek with a shovel, or blown off his hand…

> As soon as people start trying to use anything, AI or not, to make as much money as possible, we have a problem. I noticed that, around the turn of the century, when "The Web" was suddenly all about the Benjamins. It's sort of gone downhill, since. For myself, I've retired, and putter around in my "software garden." I do make use of AI, to help me solve problems, and generate code starts, but I am into it for perso…

[flagged]

Re: Playing in the Creek

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As soon as people start trying to use anything, AI or not, to make as much money as possible, we have a problem. I noticed that, around the turn of the century, when "The Web" was suddenly all about the Benjamins. It's sort of gone downhill, since. For myself, I've retired, and putter around in my "software garden." I do make use of AI, to help me solve problems, and generate code starts, but I am into it for perso…

[flagged]

Are you jealous or mad that they didn't do more for you? Neither is a good look really. What have you done for me lately?

Re: Playing in the Creek

#54

The author seems concerned about AI risk -- as in, "they're going to kill us all" -- and that's a common LW trope. Yet, as a regular user of SOTA AI models, it's far from clear to me that the risk exists on any foreseeable time horizon. Even today's best models are credulous and lack a certain insight and originality. As Dwarkesh once asked: > One question I had for you while we were talking about the intelligence st…

A perfect AI isn't a threat: you can just tell it to come up with a set of rules whose consequences would never be things that we today would object to.

A useless AI isn't a threat: nobody will use it.

LLMs, as they exist today, are between these two. They're competent enough to get used, but will still give incorrect (and sometimes dangerous) answers that the users are not equipped to notice.

Like designing US trade policy.

> Yet, as a regular user of SOTA AI models, it's far from clear to me that the risk exists on any foreseeable time horizon. Even today's best models are credulous and lack a certain insight and originality.

What does the latter have to do with the former?

> Point is, I don't think that LLMs are capable of coming up with terrifyingly novel ways to kill all humans.

Why would the destruction of humanity need to use a novel mechanism, rather than a well-known one?

> And this hasn't changed at all over the past five years.

They're definitely different now than 5 years ago. I played with the DaVinci models back in the day, nobody cared because that really was just very good autocomplete. Even if there's a way to get the early models to combine knowledge from different domains, it wasn't obvious how to actually make them do that, whereas today it's "just ask".

> Now they're able to trawl LinkedIn posts and browse the web for press releases, is all.

And write code. Not great code, but "it'll do" code. And use APIs.

> More than that, these models lack independent volition and they have no temporal/spatial sense. It's not clear, from first principles, that they can operate as truly independent agents.

While I'd agree they lack the competence to do so, I don't see how this matters. Humans are lazy and just tell the machine to do the work for them, give themselves a martini and a pay rise, then wonder why "The Machine Stops": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_Stops

The human half of this equation has been shown many times in the course of history. Our leaders treat other humans as machines or as animals, give themselves pay rises, then wonder why the strikes, uprisings, rebellions, and wars of independence happened.

Ironically, the lack of imagination of LLMs, the very fact that they're mimicking us, may well result in this kind of AI doing exactly that kind of thing even with the lowest interpretation of their nature and intelligence — the mimicry of human history is sufficient.

--

That said, I agree with you about the limitations of using them for research. Where you say this:

> I noticed this myself just the other day. I asked GPT-4.5 "Deep Research" what material would make the best [mechanical part]. The top response I got was directly copied from a laughably stupid LinkedIn essay. The second response was derived from some marketingslop press release. There was no original insight at all. What I took away from my prompt was that I'd have to do the research and experimentation myself.

I had similar with NotebookLM, where I put in one of my own blog posts and it missed half the content and re-interpreted half the rest in a way that had nothing much in common with my point. (Conversely, this makes me wonder: how many humans misunderstand my writing?)

Re: Playing in the Creek

#56
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t semiautonomous drones already killing soldiers in Ukraine? Can you not imagine a future with more conflict and automated killing? Maybe that’s not seen as AI risk per se?

That's not "AI risk" because they're still tools that lack independent volition. Somebody's building them and setting them loose. They're not building themselves and setting themselves loose, and it's far from clear how to get there from here. Dumb bombs kill people just as easily. One 80-year old nuke is, at least potentially , more effective than the entirety of the world's drones.

Oh, but it is an AI risk.

The analogy is with stock market flash-crashes, but those can be undone if everyone agrees "it was just a bug".

Software operates faster than human reaction times, so there's always pressure to fully automate aspects of military equipment, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

Unfortunately, a flash-war from a bad algorithm, from a hallucination, from failing to specify that the moon isn't expected to respond to IFF pings even when it comes up over the horizon from exactly the direction you've been worried about finding a Soviet bomber wing… those are harder to undo.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As soon as people start trying to use anything, AI or not, to make as much money as possible, we have a problem. I noticed that, around the turn of the century, when "The Web" was suddenly all about the Benjamins. It's sort of gone downhill, since. For myself, I've retired, and putter around in my "software garden." I do make use of AI, to help me solve problems, and generate code starts, but I am into it for perso…

[flagged]

I'm retired as well, dislike what we have for the internet these days.

In reflecting on my career I can say I got into it for the right reasons. That is, I liked programming — but also found out fairly quickly that not everyone could do it and so it could be a career path that would prove lucrative. And this in particular for someone who had no other likelihood, for example, of ever owning a home. I was probably not going to be able to afford graduate school (had barely paid for state college by working minimum wage jobs throughout college and over the summers) and regardless I was not the most studious person. (My degree was Education — I had expected a modest income as a career high school teacher).

But as I say, I enjoyed programming at first. And when it arrived, the web was just a giant BBS as far as I was concerned and so of course I liked it. But it is possible to find a thing that you really like can go to shit over the ensuing decades. (And for that matter, my duties as an engineer got shittier as well as the career "evolved". I had not originally signed up for code reviews, unit tests, scrum, etc. Oh well.)

Money as a pursuit made sense to me after I was in the field and saw that others around me were doing quite well — able as I say, to afford to buy a home — something I had assumed would always be out of reach for me (my single mother had always rented, I assumed I would as well — oh, I still had a modest college loan to pay off too). So I learned about 30-year home loans, learned about the real estate market in the Bay Area, learned also about RSUs, capital gains tax, 401Ks, index finds, etc.

But as is becoming a theme in this thread (?) at some point I was satisfied that I had done enough to secure a home, tools for my hobbies, and had raised three girls — paid for their college. I began to see the now burdensome career I was in as an albatross around my soul. The technology that I had once enjoyed, made my career on the back of, had gone sour.

Re: Playing in the Creek

#60
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Or is it more similar to what people do when they see a new word and reach for their dictionary?

> Are you at all concerned that plugging stuff like this into ChatGPT is leaving you with weaker cognitive muscles? Couldn't this very same argument have been used against any form of mental augmentation, like written language and computers? Or, in an extended interpretation, against any form of physical augmentation, like tool use?

You can argue whatever you want to argue.

I make my living with my brain so I do worry about the downsides of removing boredom and mental struggle from my days.

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