Kevin Warwick has a more up to date version of this controlling a robot in his lab at Reading Uni - http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/biomedical/bionics/rat-br... Presumably someone, somewhere has a bathtub of human neurons and is probably using them to try and predict the stock exchange.
> Presumably someone, somewhere has a bathtub of human neurons and is probably using them to try and predict the stock exchange. That's nothing. I've seen -- with my own eyes -- places where they have entire office floors or even buildings full of whole human bodies stationed trying to do the same thing.
A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
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Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#52Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#53Here's the paper: http://neural.bme.ufl.edu/page13/assets/NeuroFlght2.pdf It looks like they're using a combination of high and low frequency pulses as a reward/punishment mechanism, though I don't fully understand how that influences the decisions being made. Would love if someone could explain it in more detail.
Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#54Odd, this is from 2004, so it's 8 years old, which is like a century in tech years. I'm surprised I have not heard of more advancements in this (creepy!) field.
Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#55I actually meet DeMarse in Florida. I made it a point to try and speak with him about his "brain in a dish". He was clearly aggravated with me. He told me about all the other amazing things his lab was doing, and how "dumb" his "brain in a dish" actually was. It was obvious to me that he felt the attention his "brain in a dish" had received was unwarranted.
This story has been reposted to HN a few times over the years. My reaction to this particular repost was to feel intensely guilty that so many people were still being tricked by the same old snakeoil. Then I looked up what the author had done in the subsequent years, and it's a pleasant surprise: DeMarse has worked on some wonderfully interesting projects which are quite unique.
I'm glad that I never tried to expose this "brain in a dish" as the lie that it is. Everyone deserves to make a mistake once in awhile, and his, I think, was merely to be flattered that reporters were interested in his work at all, which is quite a natural reaction. I'm sure he regrets that he wasn't as careful as he should've been with correcting the reporters' assumptions.
Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#56Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#57I actually meet DeMarse in Florida. I made it a point to try and speak with him about his "brain in a dish". He was clearly aggravated with me. He told me about all the other amazing things his lab was doing, and how "dumb" his "brain in a dish" actually was. It was obvious to me that he felt the attention his "brain in a dish" had received was unwarranted.
Thank you for sharing this. The attention he received for it was absolutely unwarranted. Anyone who reads the paper and understands what was written would also understand that. Unfortunately, not many people take the time to do that. I've not heard of anyone else attempt it -- it took me several hours of intensive thought to finally figure out what he'd done. At the end of it I felt so disgusted that it was being pre…
Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#5825k cells. Even if the brain is fully connected bidirectionally, it has at most 625M connections. Can it be simulated by software?
Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for sharing this. The attention he received for it was absolutely unwarranted. Anyone who reads the paper and understands what was written would also understand that. Unfortunately, not many people take the time to do that. I've not heard of anyone else attempt it -- it took me several hours of intensive thought to finally figure out what he'd done. At the end of it I felt so disgusted that it was being pre…
Yeah, DeMarse is a real scientist (or engineer?). I speculate that he did what he did to raise money for his research. I think DARPA money started pouring in to fund his lab after that paper. I just wish more money flowed through the NSF/NIH instead :-)
I don't know how to feel about that. If you find some time, would you mind evaluating my write-up at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=97299 ?
I'm wrestling with the moral implications of a scientist riding a wave of unfounded hype to raise public money for his own lab. Also, I don't know if that's an accurate description of what happened; it seems that way to me, but I'm worried I'm wrong. I'd be grateful to get your thoughts (and anyone else's).
Re: A living "brain" of cultured rat cells can control an F-22 flight simulator
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, DeMarse is a real scientist (or engineer?). I speculate that he did what he did to raise money for his research. I think DARPA money started pouring in to fund his lab after that paper. I just wish more money flowed through the NSF/NIH instead :-)
I think DARPA money started pouring in to fund his lab after that paper. I don't know how to feel about that. If you find some time, would you mind evaluating my write-up at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=97299 ? I'm wrestling with the moral implications of a scientist riding a wave of unfounded hype to raise public money for his own lab. Also, I don't know if that's an accurate description of what happened; it…
Here is the pertinent reference in DeMarse's paper: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/23/28/9349.full.pdf+html
Now to answer what you asked me about. Do I think what DeMarse did is morally right or wrong? I do not want to pass judgement because I am still in school and don't have to worry about funding my own research. A professor I respect for his scientific integrity told me every scientist has a skeleton in their closet (referring to research projects). I think the fact that DeMarse's paper caught on like wildfire just goes to show you that a majority of Humans (computer programmers included) can be relatively stupid.