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Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

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Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#51

Post by cf100clunk »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #26
rollcat wrote: post #24

I have mixed feelings about FreeBSD. Some stuff is genuinely good: major/minor release branches, the best ZFS experience you can get OOB, actual man pages, overall a lot "cleaner" than most Linux distros. OTOH when you compare it to e.g. OpenBSD (or in many instances, even Linux), it's an actual mess. The default install leaves you browsing thru the handbook to get simple things to work; it has three ( three !) disti…

> the split between /usr/local/etc and /etc constantly leaves you guessing where to find a particular config file; Isn't it just that /etc is the base OS and /usr/local is all packages added on top?

Symbolic links can be made, but test test test and make sure anyone else administering that host knows exactly what has been linked and why. Purists might scream, but its none of their business if it doesn't get in anyone else's way.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#52

Post by badgersnake »

mekster wrote: post #49
badgersnake wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Linux makes it a faff because the license is incompatible so you have to run it as a 3rd party module and the kernel devs regularly break it. With FreeBSD it’s already there and you know it will work.

My zfs never broke under Ubuntu and installation is easy by installing 1 package.

Lucky you

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#53

Post by asveikau »

mekster wrote: post #43
asveikau wrote: post #9

ZFS is probably the biggest reason for me. I have a machine with a zfs pool running samba and nfsd. Philosophically I tend to prefer *BSDs over Linux. I have a few FreeBSD machines, one OpenBSD, and one Linux.

Ubuntu can have zfs with an install of a package. BSD’s inability to utilize docker ecosystem had me decided to stick with Ubuntu for a decade, unless things change and BSD gets clear advantages over Linux.

Here's where I'll show my age. If you got into a unix-like OS in the '90s, the *BSD ergonomics will make more sense.

I remember when Ubuntu and docker each entered the scene and my initial impressions of both were pretty negative.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#54

Post by csdvrx »

hylaride wrote: post #44
csdvrx wrote: post #13

The main complain of the author seems to be that linux use systemd. In my experience, systemd is far better and more reliable than anything else, especially if you need complex logic (ex: when this and that happen, start doing this, except when such and such are present) Most of the problems I've seen come from trying to duplicate systemd functions: in the author example, why bother with rsyslog or network-manager? I…

99% of my issues with systemd are that it is a kitchen sink mentality. If it just dealt with process and service management, it'd mostly be minor quibbles - it was time to replace init with something. But instead it also does NTP, DHCP/networking, logging, etc. There were some very annoying teething issues with a lot of these components. It became more difficult to isolate problems buried within the systemd stack. It…

> There were some very annoying teething issues with a lot of these components

Currently, I don't have any issue at all, and I'm not aware of any either.

I like how it's very reliable and integrated: the "kitchen sink mentality" can have positive effects

> It didn't help that the systemd head (Lennart Poettering) was extremely intransigent with any complaints, often outright refusing to deal with various historical edge cases for long-established norms.

In retrospect, given how well it all works, maybe he was right to refuse to compromise.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#55

Post by whalesalad »

lunarlull wrote: post #36
yabones wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I currently run on FreeBSD is my storage box. ZFS is absolutely amazing, and FreeBSD supports it fully and without any of the "jank" you'd get running ZFS on Linux. It Just Works (tm), bottom to top. Anything else, I want what I'm familiar with on Linux, like containers and systemd services. I know some people really love pf, but I've been using iptables for so long it would be annoying to switch at th…

> without any of the "jank" you'd get running ZFS on Linux. What jank? Compile it in the kernel of load the module, install the zfs utils, then it's done. Very simple, no complications, where is the jank?

Ostensibly DKMS can be interpreted as jank, for situations where you upgrade your kernel, zfs integration fails or blocks that, and now you are in limbo. At least, I can imagine this being a complaint from someone.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#56

Post by mekster »

briandear wrote: post #2

Curious what “home servers” are really for. I’ve gone decades without needing a home server — what am I missing out on?

You’re leaking all the domain you’re accessing? Are all your data in clouds that are scanned for AI training etc? All your email are belongs to the big corps? By now they know about yourself more than you do. You’re not the one missing, you’re just giving it away.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#58

Post by lillecarl »

cf100clunk wrote: post #42
lillecarl wrote: post #40

I started reading but stopped as soon as it was a systemd rant. systemd, while not for everyone is a good for most people .

I kept on reading because I use OSes that have different init systems, one of which is systemd. Choice is great. Of course, your comment could be accused of being a rant too.

Choice is great, but I don't think we can expect everyone to maintain "unit files" for every init system. If you can and can afford to run systemd it's probably worth it, it's a "nice to have" most of the time.

If you wanna run your own init solution you can but it might be a bit of effort, embedded people often do this while a system like a desktop with dbus and display servers and IPC left and right might standardize on systemd

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#59

Post by johnklos »

csdvrx wrote: post #13

The main complain of the author seems to be that linux use systemd. In my experience, systemd is far better and more reliable than anything else, especially if you need complex logic (ex: when this and that happen, start doing this, except when such and such are present) Most of the problems I've seen come from trying to duplicate systemd functions: in the author example, why bother with rsyslog or network-manager? I…

> I have also seen many people refusing to learn modern tools

One of the reasons I prefer NetBSD (and the BSDs in general) is that they don't change gratuitously. The ifconfig / ip example you use is good: Why? If we look at the reasoning given, it was that they didn't want to make big changes to ifconfig, so they made a whole new set of commands, even though the BSDs have extended ifconfig many times.

So that ends up meaning that how-tos just don't work any more. Imagine if you want to write a how-to these days where you're telling people how to do something using standard ifconfig and now also need to add ip. This is how you do DNS on standard Unix(like) systems, and now you have to explain multiple iterations of systemd. This is how you add software, but now you need to have separate instructions for apt, yum, dpkg.

Having administered Ubuntu for others, even going from version 18 to 20 or 22 means that how-tos no longer work, scripts need to be modified, systemd handling has to be updated, et cetera.

This is why I will always choose a BSD if given a chance. Pointing to a less messy Linux (like Void because it doesn't use systemd) isn't good enough when clean, well thought out systems already exist.

Re: Why I run FreeBSD for my home servers (2024)

#60

Post by johnklos »

dangus wrote: post #6

Just another “I don’t like systemd and refuse to understand it” rant. I can’t think of any change that has improved my Linux sysadmin experience more than the move to systemd. Is it complicated? Perhaps it is. But this FUD about it being resource intensive or unreliable or difficult to use is complete nonsense. And on top of that systemd isn’t even “Linux.” Plenty of popular production-ready distros like Alpine Linux…

FUD? No. There are plenty of people on plenty of sites asking, "How do I do this very simple thing using systemd?", along with plenty of answers which depend on which distro it is, how recent it is, et cetera.

For instance, DNS handling and NTP keep coming up over and over, and it's almost becoming a meme. Why? Because it's the Microsoft mentality - we (the systemd people) know better than you (you're just the machine's owner and administrator), and we'll take care of this. You want to? Not without a fight.

So no, it's not FUD when reasonable people can't give reasonable answers for how to do something that's otherwise reasonably simple.

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