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Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

garymarcus.substack.com

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Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#51

Post by puppycodes »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #41
puppycodes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that is equally atrocious and should be eliminated from a society that wants to share ideas freely. Idk if your in the US but you also massively oversimplify in your example, copyright law is waaaaaaaay more complex than that and it would take a set of special circumstances way beyond doing what you say it siphon money from an infringment claim

A world without any legal protection for novel ideas or creative works is a world that does not share them freely. That is why copyright law was originally created. Without it, there is little incentive to invest in the creation or disemmination of the works in the first place. Edit: I am not defending the current form of those laws. The time period is too long for one thing. But removing it entirely would be a bad i…

I disagree. But I think we are operating on a different premise. My critique is wider and includes capitalism as a system, too much to cover in a reply on HN but idealogically it boils down to entitled thinking where people feel they are the protagonist and somehow "unique" among all other human beings and then expect to become a landlord for ideas. There are lots of ways to create capital and profit without being a patent troll.

Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#52

Post by puppycodes »

philistine wrote: post #32
puppycodes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that is equally atrocious and should be eliminated from a society that wants to share ideas freely. Idk if your in the US but you also massively oversimplify in your example, copyright law is waaaaaaaay more complex than that and it would take a set of special circumstances way beyond doing what you say it siphon money from an infringment claim

Copyright law is enshrined in a knotted web of trade deals across the world, meaning it will never change for as long as anyone on this board is alive. It's so tiring on here with the constant copyright law shouldn't exist . We know! How do we get rid of it? What's your argument for everyone to break all the world's trade deals to give you this one thing that would unmake our whole artistic sector?

I have a more positive outlook on the future as we have seen the rise of open source and collaborative community projects. But yes we might have to enter a post money star trek universe first but hey a girl can dream.

Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#53

Post by puppycodes »

bernb wrote: post #40
zzo38computer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. I think that copyright is bad, and patents is also bad. It is a different issue if they steal your private data or your power (I mean the electrical power for the computers, in case that isn't already clear). Making copies of published books, music, etc (and doing what you want with them) is not the bad things.

How would you replace the incentives for R&D for medication, for example? That often costs billions of dollars.

I take deep issue with this argument as if improving the lives of others isn't enough of an incentive. Ask most scientists whether they got into it for the money and you'll have your answer.

Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#55

Post by dfedbeef »

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #45
dfedbeef wrote: post #2

The penalty for willful infringement in the US is pretty steep per instance.

Good point to think about. What specific act of training is infringing? Looks like none in this case, but happy to be corrected.

Downloading and reproducing the pirated copy of the work. It's called a COPYright for a reason.

Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#56

Post by thedevilslawyer »

dfedbeef wrote: post #55
thedevilslawyer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point to think about. What specific act of training is infringing? Looks like none in this case, but happy to be corrected.

Downloading and reproducing the pirated copy of the work. It's called a COPYright for a reason.

Downloading is completely legal towards fair use (and hence non infringing).

No reproduction happens in the act of training an LLM.

Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#57

Post by AlexeyBelov »

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #56
dfedbeef wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downloading and reproducing the pirated copy of the work. It's called a COPYright for a reason.

Downloading is completely legal towards fair use (and hence non infringing). No reproduction happens in the act of training an LLM.

Username checks out.

Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#58

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

puppycodes wrote: post #51
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A world without any legal protection for novel ideas or creative works is a world that does not share them freely. That is why copyright law was originally created. Without it, there is little incentive to invest in the creation or disemmination of the works in the first place. Edit: I am not defending the current form of those laws. The time period is too long for one thing. But removing it entirely would be a bad i…

I disagree. But I think we are operating on a different premise. My critique is wider and includes capitalism as a system, too much to cover in a reply on HN but idealogically it boils down to entitled thinking where people feel they are the protagonist and somehow "unique" among all other human beings and then expect to become a landlord for ideas. There are lots of ways to create capital and profit without being a…

Granted, if we were operating in an entirely different economic system, my points may be moot.

I don't much see the need for our current copyright or patent law in a post-scarcity Star-Trek society, for example. Although even then, I still don't discount the need for some legal protection on creative works (e.g. the right to be known as the author).

Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#59

Post by ricardobeat »

card_zero wrote: post #28
ricardobeat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the commercial/legal angle, but from the viewpoint of AI being something we as a society have an interest in developing, how should this work? Do you want to severely limit evolution of models by having them pick (and buy) a tiny subset of all books? Should every training run put money into a pool that gets paid out to every rights holder of every book that has ever been published ? Should Meta buy a physical o…

> Should every training run put money into a pool that gets paid out to every rights holder of every book that has ever been published? That could actually work. Bearing in mind that all copyright laws are messy and terrible, this proposal is at least not impossible. "Ever been published" means in the last 100 years.

Ok, 130 million books against $100M training costs. You charge an (unrealistic) 100% tax for the book usage. Each author will get less than a dollar. What is the point other than enriching publishing companies?

Re: Meta pirated at least 101 of my books, and others

#60

Post by alanfranz »

ricardobeat wrote: post #59
card_zero wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should every training run put money into a pool that gets paid out to every rights holder of every book that has ever been published? That could actually work. Bearing in mind that all copyright laws are messy and terrible, this proposal is at least not impossible. "Ever been published" means in the last 100 years.

Ok, 130 million books against $100M training costs. You charge an (unrealistic) 100% tax for the book usage. Each author will get less than a dollar. What is the point other than enriching publishing companies?

You mean, what is the point beyond paying those companies that made such books possible and available for their work? No other point, actually.
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