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Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

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Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#51

Why must the Europeans be like this? Why do they insist on fucking with a free and open internet instead of addressing the apparently unmet demand that is fueling a black market?

For one simple reason.

If the US wants some content gone from the internet, they (usually) have enough might to make that happen.

Most major tech companies are registered in the US, and can be ordered by a US court to stop providing services to pirates. This notably includes most major DNS registrars, reputable ad networks and major payment processors.

There's no point in blocking a website if you can just boot it off Visa, or force it to show penis enlargement / shady gambling ads or malware popups to survive.

Even if a website miraculously has no US links to exploit, there are extradition treaties, good relations with foreign law enforcement, control over the financial system, or even international sanctions if the situation gets dire enough.

European countries are far less powerful here, especially when they act alone (as they usually do in these matters) instead of doing it under the auspices of the EU. Site blocking is often the only remedy they have.

The US has an opposite problem with scam calls. Because there are so many English speakers in India, and Indian law enforcement largely doesn't care about scammers as long as they scam foreigners, there's little the US can do about the issue. European countries whose first language is not English have it much easier, as there's often no third-world country that speaks the same language and where the scammers could be recruited from.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#52

Why must the Europeans be like this? Why do they insist on fucking with a free and open internet instead of addressing the apparently unmet demand that is fueling a black market?

For one simple reason. If the US wants some content gone from the internet, they (usually) have enough might to make that happen. Most major tech companies are registered in the US, and can be ordered by a US court to stop providing services to pirates. This notably includes most major DNS registrars, reputable ad networks and major payment processors. There's no point in blocking a website if you can just boot it of…

What piracy has the US government ever stopped? The pirate bay is up all the free movie tv.com sites are up

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#53
post #2

DOH is your friend. My regime poisons DNS and enabling DOH makes things accessible again.

Serious question: how is DoH supposed to help when the resolver itself is being asked to return bad results? DoH makes sense if something is MITM-ing your DNS requests, but it sounds in this case that Google is being asked to just straight-up return bad results?

It would not.

You'd need a resolver that was provided by a foreign organization, preferably a non-profit, with no business interests in your country whatsoever, so that your government had nothing to threaten them with if they didn't comply with the order.

Such a resolver would also need to be the default shipped with at least one major browser, such that blocking it would essentially mean "turning off the internet" for some users.

Then the pressure would move to forcing browsers to use a different DNS resolver, and the game would continue.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#54
Why is Europe like this? I feel like this is what happens when you have a region that can't innovate and only knows how to regulate.

Innovators cease to be represented at the government level and the general public equates regulation with safety. The result is an increasing amount of absurd policymaking related to technology.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#55
post #7

> This decision follows a similar case against Internet backbone firm Cloudflare. In January, the Court of Milan found that Cloudflare's CDN, DNS server, and WARP VPN were facilitating piracy. The court threatened Cloudflare with fines of up to 10,000 euros per day if it did not begin blocking the sites. I'm always curious about jurisdiction on this stuff. If Cloudflare had no physical machines, employees, and proper…

That is a big 'if' though. Don't CDNs work by having equipment in every country so you don't have to?

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#56

Why must the Europeans be like this? Why do they insist on fucking with a free and open internet instead of addressing the apparently unmet demand that is fueling a black market?

Please, do not confuse Europeans with the entities taking such actions. I know of nobody supporting such draconian measures. However, the government, the football league and the guys taking decisions at agcom (which in the past has been a serious and respected agency for the battle he took with tech companies) are, quite apparently, banding together to make the football league will become reality above anything else

Europeans consistently support a regulation regime that routinely pushes absurd tech policy. It sounds great to normies so it goes unresisted. But it's a complete fucking nightmare for anyone trying to actually build+ship anything.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#57
post #54

Why is Europe like this? I feel like this is what happens when you have a region that can't innovate and only knows how to regulate. Innovators cease to be represented at the government level and the general public equates regulation with safety. The result is an increasing amount of absurd policymaking related to technology.

>Why is Europe like this?

Italy isn't Europe. Europe isn't Italy, either.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, do not confuse Europeans with the entities taking such actions. I know of nobody supporting such draconian measures. However, the government, the football league and the guys taking decisions at agcom (which in the past has been a serious and respected agency for the battle he took with tech companies) are, quite apparently, banding together to make the football league will become reality above anything else

While I generally agree that one should not conflate private individuals with the actions of their government, I do think it is fair to hold people who live in democracies responsible in a general or aggregate sense for the actions of their elected governments. In other words, I think it is fair to say that Italy pulls shit like this because enough Italian voters want it to happen or otherwise let it happen.

> I do think it is fair to hold people who live in democracies responsible in a general or aggregate sense for the actions of their elected governments.

Are you american? Should you be held responsible for Trumps' and Musks' actions?

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one simple reason. If the US wants some content gone from the internet, they (usually) have enough might to make that happen. Most major tech companies are registered in the US, and can be ordered by a US court to stop providing services to pirates. This notably includes most major DNS registrars, reputable ad networks and major payment processors. There's no point in blocking a website if you can just boot it of…

What piracy has the US government ever stopped? The pirate bay is up all the free movie tv.com sites are up

The US pressured the Swedish government to close Pirate bay, sieze its servers etc. Tried to shut it for the whole world.

This is the country that banned Tiktok, inacted the DMCA. Apparently the US has blocked 1.2m websites since 2010. They sieze domains, sieze servers. They stop payment companies working for the sites.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, do not confuse Europeans with the entities taking such actions. I know of nobody supporting such draconian measures. However, the government, the football league and the guys taking decisions at agcom (which in the past has been a serious and respected agency for the battle he took with tech companies) are, quite apparently, banding together to make the football league will become reality above anything else

Europeans consistently support a regulation regime that routinely pushes absurd tech policy. It sounds great to normies so it goes unresisted. But it's a complete fucking nightmare for anyone trying to actually build+ship anything.

The DMCA is a complete nightmare for Europeans trying to ship anything in the US. The US control over the payment industry is a complete nightmare for Europeans trying to ship anything anywhere.
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