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Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

writings.stephenwolfram.com

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Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, it's just a coincidence that the advent of capitalism and an unimaginable increase in global wealth happened at the same time. Thousands of texts written by historians and economists who dedicate their lives to understanding our past are totally wrong.

I'm not sure what you're saying is inconsistent with parent's comment: you're both talking about different points in time in humanity's history – the snark seems unwarranted.

Calling the parent myopic while saying "Also, humanity is hardly an economy of capitalism any more. More similar to oligarchical capital feudalism." Is deserving of snark.

In the context of 5 centuries of capitalism we live in an age of unprecedented equality, freedom, and opportunity.

Further, observed over the last 5000 years of human civilization the stupendous rise of innovation under capitalism is so dramatic that implying it is not responsible for the wealth we enjoy today beggars belief.

Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#52
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't every Turing complete cellular automaton have this property? What would be an example of a nontrivial (i.e., sufficiently expressive) CA that is "predictable"?

One example would be a CA that takes an exponential number of steps to emulate n steps of a Turing machine. That allows you to predict exponentially far into the future by running the TM machine instead.

This insight is why I stopped trying to use CA as my underlying computational substrate in genetic programming experiments. It is much, much cheaper to run something like brainfuck programs than it is to simulate CA on a practical computer.

A switch statement over 8 instructions contained in a contiguous byte array will essentially teleport its way through your CPU's architecture.

Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wolfram's problem is mindset IMO. There's a certain kind of highly intelligent mind, but because of fame, money, habit or personality, makes them intellectually lazy. Instead of doing the proofs, research, careful discussion and reconceptualizing that leads to useful theories and conclusion, they jump straight to the end, because they think they're smart. This produces some impressive sounding theory, but which upon…

My impression is different: I think Wolfram is plenty hard-working, but his internal mental life is so full of fantasies of unlimited success and fame that he cannot manage an impartial-enough evaluation of his own work output.

any specific source ? (fire time I hear that about Wolfram )

Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#54

I feel like I'm too dumb to understand whether these CA articles of his are interesting or just numerology deep-dives like people who spend their lives "investigating" the torah.

He’s been at this for decades, without a single prediction of any phenomena in nature. His theories can’t even reproduce known physical phenomena correctly. So you can be dumb and still correctly conclude that it’s basically numerology.

Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#55

I feel like I'm too dumb to understand whether these CA articles of his are interesting or just numerology deep-dives like people who spend their lives "investigating" the torah.

From the article, for some context for what I'm about to say:

"And indeed, what we’ll often see is that the more optimized a structure is, the less modular it tends to be. If we’re going to construct something “by hand” we usually need to assemble it in parts, because that’s what allows us to “understand what we’re doing”. But if, for example, we just find a structure in a search, there’s no reason for it to be “understandable”, and there’s no reason for it to be particularly modular."

If I were going to sum up what I will politely call Wolfram's Conjecture, it is that there is some other way to start with some sort of understanding of cellular automata and derive from that understanding the ability to model systems, and presumably the ability to build systems in cellular automata, using that superior understanding that are not characterized by the modularity shown in human constructions. Something like chaos mathematics, but for cellular automata, and presumably, something that goes beyond statistical characterization into some sort of deeper understanding that is somehow analogous to our ability to deeply understand the modular systems.

For the purposes of what I'm saying here, I'm virtually equating "understanding" with "ability to meaningfully manipulate". You or I may not be able to manipulate one of the human constructed systems in Life, but there is a path to learn how that is observably human-comprehensible and capable of being conveyed through human communication, because it has been. By contrast, the article shows many cases of "humans constructed this system with property X, and by random search we found a much more efficient system with that property, but it is not something a human could ever have reasonably designed".

What I may less charitably call "Wolfram's Mistake" is that there is at the moment frankly no evidence that I can see that such a thing is true, despite him having been searching for it for a very long time.

There's two angles on that, which are: One, is there any such understanding that is accessible to human cognition? And two, is there any such understanding at all, without that limitation, but with some sort of finite level of intelligence significantly smaller than the level necessary to just brute force the problem?

Or, to put it another way, it is not hard to hypothesize intelligences that could just glance a description of Life and then simply internally simulate systems directly looking for whatever you like. You may consider them something like "What if a human just had a modern computer built directly into their brain?" They would have vastly, vastly more raw computational power than a human without that for this purpose, but, is there any sort of understanding of cellular automata in general or even Life in particular that is meaningfully more compact than simply running the automata?

If you want to dig more into what it means to "understand" something, I refer you to "Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity" https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/philos.pdf , rather than trying to further elaborate in this post. An "understanding" of this sort of cellular automata, whatever it may be, no matter how alien the system that has this "understanding" may be, should me meaningfully more computationally compact than the exponential complexity of simply having a table of all possibilities in memory.

From this perspective "Wolfram's Mistake" is that there is no such understanding; there is fundamentally no way to create a computational model for the phenomena in a cellular automata system that is simpler than the cellular automata itself in a general case.

Which means that rather than being the key to understanding, they're actually a really bad lens to try to view the world through for any sort of understanding by us finite beings. As incomplete and simplified as our many other lenses may be, at least they work in some cases. Cellular automata don't seem amenable to compact theories of any utility. (And by "any utility", I mean, any utility; scientific, mathematical, engineering, practical, all of them.) There's a few places of use, but not very many.

An interesting aspect is that while all Turing Complete systems ultimately exhibit this behavior, they do not seem to all do so equally. Lambda calculus, for instance, has all the same chaos in some sense, if for no other reason than you can always create the game of Life directly in lambda calculus. Yet lambda calculus also admits human understanding. I select lambda calculus in particular as one of the most human-friendly Turing Complete formalisms. Turning them into actual useful programming languages is on the order of "useful learning exercise". Turing machines are sort of in between; we can work with them, but they do tend to explode into chaos relatively easily. Cellular automata, by contrast, require extreme human effort to work with, just to get them to halfway tame. There's an interesting study here about why that is, which is currently well beyond me.

Again, looking at Wolfram's Conjecture another way is that this is somehow not correct and we're just not looking at CAs correctly, and if we did, they might become more useful than Turing machines or perhaps even lambda calculus, and, again, I just don't see the evidence for this.

Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wolfram's problem is mindset IMO. There's a certain kind of highly intelligent mind, but because of fame, money, habit or personality, makes them intellectually lazy. Instead of doing the proofs, research, careful discussion and reconceptualizing that leads to useful theories and conclusion, they jump straight to the end, because they think they're smart. This produces some impressive sounding theory, but which upon…

My impression is different: I think Wolfram is plenty hard-working, but his internal mental life is so full of fantasies of unlimited success and fame that he cannot manage an impartial-enough evaluation of his own work output.

"your impression", is true only in the Ruliad. Ask people who knew him back in the 80's... he never worked on anything on his own that has amounted to anything. He is a real life crank, crackpot and all around charlatan.

Mathematica is the product of 30 years of work on Macsyma and Maple systems at MIT and elsewhere, which he cracked its codebase, usurped and sold to an unsuspecting academic community back when only the likes of Bill Gates would do such as thing.

He also missed the entire LLM wave because he refused to open source WolframAlpha codebase and work with others in the NLP community.

Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is different: I think Wolfram is plenty hard-working, but his internal mental life is so full of fantasies of unlimited success and fame that he cannot manage an impartial-enough evaluation of his own work output.

any specific source ? (fire time I hear that about Wolfram )

My impression is based on hearing him speak for a few hours and maybe some biographical facts such as can be gotten from Wikipedia.

Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you opening Mathematica recently? Or visited the product page for Mathematica[1]? The only change has been branding the language itself as the “Wolfram Language” where Mathematica is just one of their product offerings. [1]: https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/?source=nav

Mathematica is open on my computer as we speak (or, rather, now Wolfram.app). The "About" screen indicates "Wolfram 14.2". I have a seat on an site licence. https://imgur.com/a/WUpSsF8 (If you're interested in what I'm currently doing with it, I'm playing around with Mathematica's neural network library.)

you got to be joking, do you play with slide rules and abacus too

NN in Mathematica is a just a toy and artifact of a bygone era. Try HuggingFace https://github.com/huggingface/course

or Karpathy's intro https://github.com/karpathy/nanoGPT

Re: Learning about Innovation from Half a Century of Conway's Game of Life

#60

I feel like I'm too dumb to understand whether these CA articles of his are interesting or just numerology deep-dives like people who spend their lives "investigating" the torah.

Yeah I always felt his writing had the unmistakable aura of quackery, despite being apparently correct maths. Weird vibe for sure.
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