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Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

theintercept.com

51–60 of 265 posts

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#51
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does surveillance need to be covert? Historically, if the police are observing you or your event specifically, that's surveillance.

I mostly agree with you, but there’s a difference between using a non-covert method of communication like telephone or SMS, and a social media post, which is designed to be relayed and amplified.

What legitimate reason would the police have for monitoring everything on social media that is protected by the Constitution?

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#52
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could always make sure it could only increase and not decrease privacy or what have you. Similarly, the "expire every 19 years" must always be included and must never be removed. Gotta keep this small though, because then what's the point...

>You could always make sure it could only increase and not decrease privacy or what have you. How could one "make sure" of this, and with what authority? >Similarly, the "expire every 19 years" must always be included and must never be removed. Again, says who? The constitution has expired, and with it any legal basis for such a requirement.

I don't agree with the idea (and technically by Jefferson's logic it should now be a much longer period, which shows it would need to be more flexible), but whatever process approves the new Constitution (probably involving a Supreme Court-type entity) would have to require these changes. Future Constitutions would both have "this document expires in 19 years" and "the successor of this document must include this clause, and the clause 'this document expires in 19 years'", and another for privacy (which would be up to whatever court allows the new Constitution). Enforcement is still "difficult", but that's kind of inherent in the process.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#53
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is surprising. Why are the police monitoring constitutionally protected activity?

When the police watch you walk down the street they are also monitoring constitutionally protected activity.

a police officer observing you briefly with their eyes is quite different than an entire police department outsourcing surveillance of protected activities to a third party which monitors your online activity over time.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#54
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't expect the police to arrest criminals knowing full well the DA is immediately going to drop or reduce charges and let them loose. You can't expect the police to do their jobs?

> You can't expect the police to do their jobs? Imagine you're a programmer, or a chef, or a carpenter, really anything. Now imagine you go to work every day, put in 8-10 hours a day working hard, and at the end of each day someone in a more powerful position than yourself throws out, ignores, or otherwise destroys all of your work for that day. And this happens every day, day after day. No matter your work ethic or…

Welcome to having a job/career. We've all put time and effort in to projects that never materialized. Do you expect every one of your ideas to be adopted and implemented by others? Surely not...

LAPD is a bastion of terrible police work. They have a rich history of killing, beating, racism, and organized crime. Maybe they're still doing bad police work, ever considered that? This budget is to protect them from civil rights lawsuits they're losing on the regular... which actually makes them the law breakers.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#56
post #52
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You could always make sure it could only increase and not decrease privacy or what have you. How could one "make sure" of this, and with what authority? >Similarly, the "expire every 19 years" must always be included and must never be removed. Again, says who? The constitution has expired, and with it any legal basis for such a requirement.

I don't agree with the idea (and technically by Jefferson's logic it should now be a much longer period, which shows it would need to be more flexible), but whatever process approves the new Constitution (probably involving a Supreme Court-type entity) would have to require these changes. Future Constitutions would both have "this document expires in 19 years" and "the successor of this document must include this cla…

Thanks, you put it better than I could. :)

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#57
post #3

Unless there is a massive rethink of a lot of laws we are running into a surveillance state worse than Orwell could have come up with. "No expectation of privacy in a public space" made sense when there were no databases that could record and analyze everything that's going on and people didn't live half of their lives on the internet. And tech is only going to accelerate the ease of total surveillance. I think Jeffe…

While Jefferson is an understandably venerated figure in the foundation of America, he was not active in the creation of the constitution. He of course wrote The Declaration of Independence and while having misgivings about the strength of the executive branch, he went on to become a hugely influential president.

On the filp side, it took him a while to come around to see the folly that was the then French Revolution whereas his political critics - notably Adams, Washington, and the frequently maligned Hamilton, were quick to keep their distance from it.

I like Jefferson but he sometimes seems to have an overly rosy and romantic view of revolutions. Tearing down is easy. Building up is very hard.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#58
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't expect the police to do their jobs? Imagine you're a programmer, or a chef, or a carpenter, really anything. Now imagine you go to work every day, put in 8-10 hours a day working hard, and at the end of each day someone in a more powerful position than yourself throws out, ignores, or otherwise destroys all of your work for that day. And this happens every day, day after day. No matter your work ethic or…

Whenever you feel like not doing your job, just tell your boss "I don't want to" and see how that goes for you. I understand how motivation works. Sometimes doing a job sucks. That's part of why you get paid to do it. It sounds to me like those police officers don't want to do their jobs. I'd encourage them to quit instead of wasting tax dollars. Of course the real issue is they want the money without the work, and t…

But that isn't what appears to be happening. Their "boss" (the DA) is the one saying "I don't want to". When your boss gives you clear incentives, like not prosecuting (throwing out) portions of your work, you are going to stop that work and focus on other things.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#59
post #28
post #7

It is not "surveillance" when the cops see your tweets.

It technically is! The ACLU has a model ordinance called CCOPS, which it encourages municipalities to pass (I got my own muni to pass a version of it last year), and it includes an expansive definition of "surveillance" that definitely includes tools that read public posts on social media. Importantly, CCOPS doesn't forbid surveillance; it simply requires new instantiations of it to be approved at an open board meeti…

As you say, expansive. As in: it expands the definition of surveillance in a way that isn't widely accepted.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#60
post #11
post #3

Unless there is a massive rethink of a lot of laws we are running into a surveillance state worse than Orwell could have come up with. "No expectation of privacy in a public space" made sense when there were no databases that could record and analyze everything that's going on and people didn't live half of their lives on the internet. And tech is only going to accelerate the ease of total surveillance. I think Jeffe…

Why wait for 19 years? Lets change constitution along administration change in DC.

Jefferson wanted 19 years to make it something each generation gets the chance to do, based on life expectancy at the time.

>And the half of those of 21 years and upwards living at any one instant of time will be dead in 18 years 8 months, or say 19 years as the nearest integral number. Then 19 years is the term beyond which neither the representatives of a nation, nor even the whole nation itself assembled, can validly extend a debt.

>[...] On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. [...] The constitution and the laws of their predecessors extinguished then in their natural course with those who gave them being. This could preserve that being till it ceased to be itself, and no longer. Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right.

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