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The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

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Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#51

Post by Hemospectrum »

chuckadams wrote: post #46
icu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Studio Ghibli's 'secret sauce' is the "Kishōtenketsu" or four act structure that makes Studio Ghibli special: 1. Ki (Introduction) - Sets up characters and situation. 2. Shō (Development) - Expands the characters and fleshes them out. 3. Ten (Twist) - Introduces a new element or change. 4. Ketsu (Conclusion) - Shows the outcome and connections between elements. In contrast Western films usually follow a three…

They look like the same steps to me, with steps 1 and 2 both being Setup. The dramatic arc is fairly universal, and Miyazaki is hardly an exotic unfamiliar with western culture.

GP's lists fall somewhat short of explaining the two most important differences:

1. Kishoutenketsu prefers to introduce the primary conflict as late as possible, whereas any writer in Hollywood will try to introduce it as early as possible.

2. Kishoutenketsu prefers to frame the primary conflict as a difference in perspective that must be bridged from both sides, rather than outright competition between irreconcilable goals.

These differences aren't fundamental (you can find all the counterexamples you like, especially if you cite movies with twist endings) but they are encouraged by style guides and deliberately (or even subconsciously) prioritized by writers, to varying effect.

Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#52

Post by ericmcer »

dash2 wrote: post #50

The author seems to conflate "dark" with "adult", so let me take the chance to point out this common mistake. Horror films, Warhammer 40K and 2000 AD comics are all famously dark, but they're for kids or teens. A Midsummer Night's Dream and The Importance of Being Earnest are light but grown-up. It's a weird deformation of the past generation to think that being depressing makes you deep.

Oh man yeah I hate this trend.

It has especially worked its way into popular literature. A books writing is at a 5th grade level, has almost zero depth, but then is full of sex and violence which makes it an "adult" novel. Authors like Sarah J Maas are almost comically bad writers but have achieved immense popular success using this setup.

Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#53

Post by bee_rider »

socks wrote: post #23
fowl338 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, it's unlikely that any other studio would have greenlighted AoR at anywhere close to the budget it got. It might have had more seasons elsewhere, but not at this level of quality. I'm glad we at least got one incredible season out of it. Scavenger's Reign on Max got similarly cancelled after one season. There isn't much audience for weird shows like that, apparently. :(

Scavenger's Reign was really excellent - but as I was watching it, I had an inkling that I would likely be in a small cohort of people who love it.

The art of Scavenger’s Reign was really good. The ecosystem was really interesting (a bit overly-clever for stuff that is supposed to have evolved IMO, but it was still really interesting). Really great setting and art.

The plot and characters felt a bit shallow/stereotypical/predictable in a bad way.

It’s like they had too much of the ecosystem that they wanted to show, so they split it up among too many characters, and didn’t invest the appropriate character development in each. Plus, I really want to steep in the ecosystem, the rush to get to the ship is, IMO, not really necessary (it serves to force the characters to explore the environment, but IMO some alternative force that doesn’t put the characters on such a tight timer would be preferable). I often found myself thinking: wow, I wish the characters could take more time exploring this phenomenon, but also, the character should, given their in-character motivation, leave this interesting thing alone. They are wasting precious time.

I’d love to see a Mushishi like series set in that universe. Focus on one character’s journey through the ecosystem. Give the character motivation to unravel the mysteries instead of dodge them.

Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#54

Post by sleepybrett »

kouru225 wrote: post #48
icu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Studio Ghibli's 'secret sauce' is the "Kishōtenketsu" or four act structure that makes Studio Ghibli special: 1. Ki (Introduction) - Sets up characters and situation. 2. Shō (Development) - Expands the characters and fleshes them out. 3. Ten (Twist) - Introduces a new element or change. 4. Ketsu (Conclusion) - Shows the outcome and connections between elements. In contrast Western films usually follow a three…

Miyazaki stated that he was trying to break everything he knows about story structure with Mononoke. Last time I saw it, it became clear to me that it’s almost impossible to fit into any story structure and it’s just one giant crescendo to the end. More like a minimalist music piece than anything.

Mononoke and Spirited Away specifically feel like they have several 'extra' acts that make them seem longer than they are. Though looking back at both I'm not sure what I'd cut.

Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#55

Post by 7357 »

ericmcer wrote: post #52
dash2 wrote: post #50

The author seems to conflate "dark" with "adult", so let me take the chance to point out this common mistake. Horror films, Warhammer 40K and 2000 AD comics are all famously dark, but they're for kids or teens. A Midsummer Night's Dream and The Importance of Being Earnest are light but grown-up. It's a weird deformation of the past generation to think that being depressing makes you deep.

Oh man yeah I hate this trend. It has especially worked its way into popular literature. A books writing is at a 5th grade level, has almost zero depth, but then is full of sex and violence which makes it an "adult" novel. Authors like Sarah J Maas are almost comically bad writers but have achieved immense popular success using this setup.

Can I mention Jay Kristoff as well?

Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#56

Post by sleepybrett »

Kipters wrote: post #42
icu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was upset at Altered Carbon being cancelled. It was very good. I've been hoping a video game studio picks up the rights and makes a good AA or AAA game. I sadly didn't find Altered Carbon: Resleeved as good as the main series.

IMO only the first season was really good, while the second one was very bad, I almost wish they had cancelled it after the first instead.

IMO the first book was really good, the others are pretty bad. So they were always going to have the problem... and frankly they altered the original book in ways that were worse without actually resolving any problems with length.

Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#57

Post by entropicdrifter »

icu wrote: post #43
Kipters wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO only the first season was really good, while the second one was very bad, I almost wish they had cancelled it after the first instead.

I didn't find it bad, but it was different, I think the show was trying to find a new direction to make the series last, which obviously didn't work.

Personally, I found the second season to be a decent show in its own right, but comparison is 100% the thief of joy in this case. Season one was one of the most gorgeous pieces of sci-fi media I've ever seen and season two just looked OK by comparison and had a much slower pace and felt more emotionally vulnerable compared to season one's hardboiled tone.

If they were separate shows I would be tempted not to compare them at all.

Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#58

Post by entropicdrifter »

nottorp wrote: post #13

Is it a masterpiece, or a 2 hour movie made with the best material in the 10 episodes would have been an actual masterpiece?

Cramming that much plot into a 2 hour movie would suck. You could maybe halve the runtime, but anything less than 5 hours would just not work IMO

Re: The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance Is a Stone-Cold Masterpiece

#60

Post by entropicdrifter »

bee_rider wrote: post #53
socks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scavenger's Reign was really excellent - but as I was watching it, I had an inkling that I would likely be in a small cohort of people who love it.

The art of Scavenger’s Reign was really good. The ecosystem was really interesting (a bit overly-clever for stuff that is supposed to have evolved IMO, but it was still really interesting). Really great setting and art. The plot and characters felt a bit shallow/stereotypical/predictable in a bad way. It’s like they had too much of the ecosystem that they wanted to show, so they split it up among too many characters,…

FWIW Scavenger's Reign's creators have been making the show Common Side Effects. It's a brilliant show in its own right IMO but the animation is nowhere near as high-effort.
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