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Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

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Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#51

Post by neil_s_anderson »

ziddoap wrote: post #47
neil_s_anderson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of bulk data collection is to be able to, in effect, take a wiretap in the past before you knew what you'd need to be wiretapping in the present, by querying the bulk datasets for communications between specific endpoints within specific points in time. As time travel doesn't exist, this is the next best technology available.

I think we all know that. We, or I at least, don't agree with it.

You don't agree with monitoring the communications of adversaries at all, or you don't agree with doing the equivalent for communications made in the recent past?

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#52

Post by ziddoap »

neil_s_anderson wrote: post #51
ziddoap wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we all know that. We, or I at least, don't agree with it.

You don't agree with monitoring the communications of adversaries at all, or you don't agree with doing the equivalent for communications made in the recent past?

I don't agree with mass collection of data of non-guilty/non-suspected citizens for "just in case" situations in the future.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#53

Post by psunavy03 »

marxisttemp wrote: post #33
kstrauser wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this without intending to denigrate Snowden at all: Klein's situation was less messy. Snowden had a top secret clearance and vowed to safeguard all the secrets he came across. Klein was just a regular guy doing regular work for a regular company when he saw something strange. That doesn't mean I think Snowden was wrong, just that there's a ton of room for people to say "I agree with him but he shouldn't have do…

Likewise, Manning got pardoned when her release was clearly messier and less targeted than Snowden’s. There isn’t much logic to these things. To be clear, all 3 are personal heroes of mine.

[flagged]

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#54

Post by neil_s_anderson »

kstrauser wrote: post #45
neil_s_anderson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because your communications data or metadata exists in some bulk dataset somewhere doesn't mean that it's being actively and personally investigated by anyone. As with the issuance of a warrant for wiretapping, there would need to be a proportionate and legitmate reason for your communications within a such a dataset to be looked at.

I do not want my data included in the dataset. "We're not looking at it, pinky swear!" rings hollow.

Why would an analyst at the NSA be looking at your communications data?

It's a bit like the police getting a search warrant to look around your home. If there's no legitimate reason to do it, like having reasonable suspicion of a crime that requires investigation, then they're not going to.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#55

Post by ziddoap »

neil_s_anderson wrote: post #54
kstrauser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not want my data included in the dataset. "We're not looking at it, pinky swear!" rings hollow.

Why would an analyst at the NSA be looking at your communications data? It's a bit like the police getting a search warrant to look around your home. If there's no legitimate reason to do it, like having reasonable suspicion of a crime that requires investigation, then they're not going to.

This is just a rewording of the "nothing to hide" argument.

And your edit seems to ignore that the analysts are humans. Police get caught abusing their access to data resources for personal gain frequently, why are NSA analysts different?

(Not even touching on the fact that mistakes happen, leaks happen, breaches happen, laws change, political winds change direction)

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#56

Post by anonym29 »

kstrauser wrote: post #28
AtomBalm wrote: post #22

He revealed unlawful surveillance years prior to and of the same gravity as Snowden, but only one became a celebrity. I would love to know the reason for that.

I say this without intending to denigrate Snowden at all: Klein's situation was less messy. Snowden had a top secret clearance and vowed to safeguard all the secrets he came across. Klein was just a regular guy doing regular work for a regular company when he saw something strange. That doesn't mean I think Snowden was wrong, just that there's a ton of room for people to say "I agree with him but he shouldn't have do…

Snowden also swore an oath to uphold the constitution, including the fourth amendment that the NSA was illegally violating (one NSA crime) and covering up (second NSA crime), including by lying to congress (third NSA crime), as well as to protect America from domestic enemies, like the kind of traitors who'd come up with a secret plan to violate the constitutional rights of the entire country and lie about it to congress.

Thank goodness he took his oath more seriously than the "I was just following orders" crowd. We know from WW2 that "I was just following orders" is not a legitimate excuse to help facilitate grave atrocities, like all of those other NSA employees did every single day, in violation of their own oaths that they each swore.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#57

Post by trescenzi »

I’m watching Person of Interest for the first time. It’s interesting watching it today now that the premise, minus 100% accurate crime prediction, is largely a forgone conclusion. It was produced after Klein but before Snowden and does a good job exploring the expansion of surveillance and just how motivated the government is to have a system that tracks everyone. Of course it’s fiction but it’s a fun watch that asks a lot of good questions.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#58

Post by booleandilemma »

psunavy03 wrote: post #53
marxisttemp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, Manning got pardoned when her release was clearly messier and less targeted than Snowden’s. There isn’t much logic to these things. To be clear, all 3 are personal heroes of mine.

[flagged]

What do you think would have happened to Snowden had he stayed on American soil?

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#59

Post by codetrotter »

efeamzaov wrote: post #27
dang wrote: post #11

Related. There were probably other relevant threads over the years—can anyone find some? Room 641A - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41507188 - Sept 2024 (5 comments) The secrets of Room 641A (2008) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38305501 - Nov 2023 (4 comments) Room 641A - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32984515 - Sept 2022 (2 comments) Room 641A - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23350120 - M…

[flagged]

I find it hilarious that this spam bot literally chose a comment by dang to respond with spam to.

Doubly so when the account has one comment 14 days ago where someone else tried to mention dang to have him see the spam :D

Fortune favors the bold, they say. But I think this takes “being bold” just a tad too literally lol.

Re: Mark Klein, AT&T whistleblower who revealed NSA mass spying, has died

#60

Post by anonym29 »

psunavy03 wrote: post #53
marxisttemp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, Manning got pardoned when her release was clearly messier and less targeted than Snowden’s. There isn’t much logic to these things. To be clear, all 3 are personal heroes of mine.

[flagged]

[flagged]
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