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The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

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Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#51

Post by ksec »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #35
ksec wrote: post #34

I disliked Google ever since they started their "Do No Evil" PR campaign. For as long as I remember I was the extreme rare few on internet against them. And I also disliked Chrome. Especially the direction of the web they are using Chrome to push forward. And I also disliked Electron. But I am against DOJ forcing Google to sell off Chrome. Especially when most of Chrome is open sourced. I think this is just plain wro…

None of those exhibit the same sort of outsized influence that chrome does on global web standards. The app store duopoly might come close but still not to the same extent. Being open source has nothing to do with it. Of course selling it off won't necessarily accomplish the desired result since at the end of the day it isn't the legal ownership per se that results in the influence.

Chrome isn't bundled with Windows, but most Window users decided to install Chrome.

While I agree outsized influence that chrome does on global web standards, it is not like Apple doesn't or couldn't invent something as well. The reality is that no one has the incentive to make better web technology.

If Google sold off Chrome, who will buy it? Are Google even allowed to make another browser based on same technology? What is everyone just installed that again? Selling off Chrome doesn't make any sense at all. And as you said. Their influence on development of Blink is still, Google.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#52

Post by nickthegreek »

dlcarrier wrote: post #50

Last time the DOJ declared a web browser monopoly, they lost the case on appeal, then the web browser does on its own. The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome. The problem is unforced errors on the part of both Apple and Mozilla creating awful web browsers that aren't worth using.

Safari and Firefox are capable web browsers. Where do people get this outlandish take from?

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#53

Post by bdavbdav »

dlcarrier wrote: post #50

Last time the DOJ declared a web browser monopoly, they lost the case on appeal, then the web browser does on its own. The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome. The problem is unforced errors on the part of both Apple and Mozilla creating awful web browsers that aren't worth using.

Not used Firefox in ages, but what’s the matter with Safari? It sips battery and cpu cycles on my macs.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#54

Post by scarfaceneo »

bdavbdav wrote: post #53
dlcarrier wrote: post #50

Last time the DOJ declared a web browser monopoly, they lost the case on appeal, then the web browser does on its own. The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome. The problem is unforced errors on the part of both Apple and Mozilla creating awful web browsers that aren't worth using.

Not used Firefox in ages, but what’s the matter with Safari? It sips battery and cpu cycles on my macs.

None. Safari is the best browser I’ve used by a long margin.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#55

Post by sebazzz »

nickthegreek wrote: post #52
dlcarrier wrote: post #50

Last time the DOJ declared a web browser monopoly, they lost the case on appeal, then the web browser does on its own. The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome. The problem is unforced errors on the part of both Apple and Mozilla creating awful web browsers that aren't worth using.

Safari and Firefox are capable web browsers. Where do people get this outlandish take from?

Maybe the actual problem is some people having this sentiment.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#56

Post by AnonHP »

dlcarrier wrote: post #50

Last time the DOJ declared a web browser monopoly, they lost the case on appeal, then the web browser does on its own. The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome. The problem is unforced errors on the part of both Apple and Mozilla creating awful web browsers that aren't worth using.

> The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome.

I feel this is meant to trigger people into reacting and causing a flame war.

Google has been making its own web properties work well on Google Chrome while making them perform poorer or make them break on other browsers. Google Chrome optimizes for Google, not the web, and certainly not “the open web”.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#57

Post by fauigerzigerk »

keepamovin wrote: post #44
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is all probably too vague and unspecified for you lot...but it is just an idea. Forgive me for being blunt, but what idea? If the question is who is supposed to fund Chromium and Firefox going forward then you haven't actually offered any ideas.

It's okay. Yes, it is just an idea, specifically of making it public. I think the government should pay for it. What do you think?

Governments are unreliable (e.g. USAID or recently disappeared government datasets) and have even more conflicts of interest than Google itself (e.g. debates around encryption). Many people don't trust their government.

Commercial funding is not necessarily more reliable in general. Google keeps shutting down stuff all the time. But in this particular case, the commercial interest is so strong that funding is secure.

In my opinion, governments should focus on natural monopolies (taxation, violence, justice, transport infrastructure, water, etc) and on areas where there is broad consensus for a public option (health, schools, etc).

Where governments fund random stuff that few people understand the importance of, there is a big risk of the whole thing getting DOGEd or starved to stagnation. The government would never put up a fight against Apple relegating the web platform to the status of a glorified document viewer.

In my opinion, the status quo is flawed but the alternatives are worse.

If the court decides that Google must "divest" Chrome, they will have to say what that means for an open source project. If it basically comes down to Google being banned from controlling the default search engine setting in any web browser, then their main incentive for funding Chrome would be gone.

If that happens, the only solution I see is a joint "Chrome Foundation" effort funded by a number of corporations with a less direct interest in the viability of the web, i.e the Linux model. But this would be very disruptive. I fear that browser development would be aimless and start to stagnate. Other oligopolists would quickly take advantage of the ensuing power vacuum.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#58

Post by hypeatei »

AnonHP wrote: post #56
dlcarrier wrote: post #50

Last time the DOJ declared a web browser monopoly, they lost the case on appeal, then the web browser does on its own. The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome. The problem is unforced errors on the part of both Apple and Mozilla creating awful web browsers that aren't worth using.

> The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome. I feel this is meant to trigger people into reacting and causing a flame war. Google has been making its own web properties work well on Google Chrome while making them perform poorer or make them break on other browsers. Google Chrome optimizes for Google, not the web, and certainly not “the open web”.

One example of special treatment is Chrome giving *.google.com sites access to system metrics for the CPU, GPU, and RAM usage[0][1] through a default extension that isn't exposed to users.

[0]: https://xcancel.com/lcasdev/status/1810696257137959018

[1]: https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:chr...

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#59

Post by southernplaces7 »

nickthegreek wrote: post #52
dlcarrier wrote: post #50

Last time the DOJ declared a web browser monopoly, they lost the case on appeal, then the web browser does on its own. The problem isn't within Google. They aren't doing anything substantial to lock users into Chrome. The problem is unforced errors on the part of both Apple and Mozilla creating awful web browsers that aren't worth using.

Safari and Firefox are capable web browsers. Where do people get this outlandish take from?

Can't speak for Safari, but Firefox has never been anything but a dumpster fire for me. Constant reminders about updates and a UI that slows my computer to a crawl no matter what I do. Yes, I open many tabs and don't use a turbocharged laptop, but the same applies to my Chrome use with next to no problems, so really, fuck you Firefox for not adjusting after decades, as per possible user needs. Chrome seems to manage it, so why can't the Mozilla people with their own expertise and funds?

Many new versions and updates of FF that I've tried have claimed to be much smoother and more efficient, only for the exact same shit to start happening across the years and multiple laptops used.

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