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Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

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Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#51

Post by jorblumesea »

lenerdenator wrote: post #8
jorblumesea wrote: post #4

Ignoring the obvious humanitarian aspect of it (veteran suicide rate, societal promises of healthcare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honoring_our_PACT_Act_of_2022 ), politically you have to wonder why do this. Vets usually vote conservative, are often employed by the VA. It's an economically unstable time with other administration policies like tariffs. It won't reduce the deficit by any significant %. VA hospitals a…

"Government doesn't work. Here, we'll prove it." Ever since Reagan said "I think you all know that I've always felt the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help." there's been a cadre of monied business interests who want to replace all government with "private" services, basically making themselves the new royal families of the US.

In this case it's directly firing your voter base. It's the same with medicaid, social security and other cut proposals. Tariffs also.

People care the most about their own wallet and income. The policies have no indirection or subtlety.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#52

Post by nameless912 »

Raidion wrote: post #33
blindriver wrote: post #15

Holy hell, they hired 83,000 people since 2019? Does no one care we are $36T in debt? 40% of our income taxes go to paying just the interest on our debt!

It's not the hiring people that's the problem. Assuming those people "cost" 300k a year all in (benefits/offices,etc) which is probably high, that's $24 billion. The government spent $6.8 trillion, cutting these jobs cuts spending by .3891%. Cutting the people without cutting the programs won't do much and is (IMO) a problem in that you should be able to access government services in a way that the writers of the law…

This is the thing that keeps making me so angry when I hear so called "budget hawks" get mad about the number of federal employees. Payroll is _not the problem_!! All of the federal payroll is something like 10-15% of the government's expenditure. Firing _everyone_ would only cut costs by 10-15%. There are plenty of programs (read: bloated defense contracts and corporate subsidies) that we could cut to save costs instead, and we wouldn't crater the federal workforce like we are now.

You can be mad about the government spending money on things you believe are unnecessary, and you can even want to fire the people related to that program! But across the board personnel cuts don't fix the appropriations issues and will waste money in inefficiency, waste and loss as the folks that are left have to pick up the pieces.

Does the federal government employ too many people? I dunno, maybe. Do we fund too many programs? Yeah, probably. But these cuts are _fucking insane_.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#53

Post by beebaween »

Raidion wrote: post #33
blindriver wrote: post #15

Holy hell, they hired 83,000 people since 2019? Does no one care we are $36T in debt? 40% of our income taxes go to paying just the interest on our debt!

It's not the hiring people that's the problem. Assuming those people "cost" 300k a year all in (benefits/offices,etc) which is probably high, that's $24 billion. The government spent $6.8 trillion, cutting these jobs cuts spending by .3891%. Cutting the people without cutting the programs won't do much and is (IMO) a problem in that you should be able to access government services in a way that the writers of the law…

very fraction of a percent counts... small things add up quickly...

Idk why this is a political issue? As a progressive I also support firing people who aren't producing effective outcomes for veterans. With all we save that money SHOULD be used to actually help veterans.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#54

Post by kstrauser »

blindriver wrote: post #44
Raidion wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the hiring people that's the problem. Assuming those people "cost" 300k a year all in (benefits/offices,etc) which is probably high, that's $24 billion. The government spent $6.8 trillion, cutting these jobs cuts spending by .3891%. Cutting the people without cutting the programs won't do much and is (IMO) a problem in that you should be able to access government services in a way that the writers of the law…

I really hate this attitude. "$24 billion a year is nothing compared to the deficit so we should just ignore it and keep spending." Spending cuts have to start SOMEWHERE. Saying $24 billion is ignorable is insane. We are in a critical debt situation and my children's future is at stake.

Here are the official spending numbers[0]. The largest categories are:

* Social Security

* Medicare

* National Defense

* Interest payments

* Health

* Income Security

* VA Benefits

Which of those categories are we overspending on? Which specific cuts do you want to make? It's impossible for one to claim they're serious about saving money without talking about slashing Social Security, Medicare, and the military, which together make 40% of the budgets, so... which are you in favor of reducing?

When you've cut your budget as far as you can and you're still losing money, the only solution is to make more money. Here, that means taxes, and specifically that we must start taxing the rich. I'm not saying that as some far-left "eat the rich" kind of thing, but as basic arithmetic and economics. We need more revenue, and it has to come from somewhere.

[0] https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#55

Post by efnx »

blindriver wrote: post #44
Raidion wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the hiring people that's the problem. Assuming those people "cost" 300k a year all in (benefits/offices,etc) which is probably high, that's $24 billion. The government spent $6.8 trillion, cutting these jobs cuts spending by .3891%. Cutting the people without cutting the programs won't do much and is (IMO) a problem in that you should be able to access government services in a way that the writers of the law…

I really hate this attitude. "$24 billion a year is nothing compared to the deficit so we should just ignore it and keep spending." Spending cuts have to start SOMEWHERE. Saying $24 billion is ignorable is insane. We are in a critical debt situation and my children's future is at stake.

The attitude comes from a point of analysis, and the argument that follows is that we can save by cutting spending in specific areas that we overspend in (military) and we could rake in lots more in taxes by making the rich _pay their fare share_.

The current firing of government workers is about political alignment, not about cost. Cost is a pretext.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#56

Post by nameless912 »

WalterBright wrote: post #47
Raidion wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the hiring people that's the problem. Assuming those people "cost" 300k a year all in (benefits/offices,etc) which is probably high, that's $24 billion. The government spent $6.8 trillion, cutting these jobs cuts spending by .3891%. Cutting the people without cutting the programs won't do much and is (IMO) a problem in that you should be able to access government services in a way that the writers of the law…

> cutting these jobs cuts spending by .3891% A billion here, a billion there, soon it adds up to real money.

But how much extra waste will be generated by losing the experts in these bureaucracies? Of course some of them are redundant, but some of them have the proverbial bathroom codes and are irreplaceable. These cuts are incredibly irresponsible; cutting _programs_, along with the staff associated with those programs, is IMO wrong but at least workable as a long term cost reduction strategy. Just slashing staff left and right is malpractice.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#57

Post by jajko »

myko wrote: post #32
CharlieDigital wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this should be higher because of facts. The PACT Act is perhaps the largest health care and benefit expansion in VA history.[22] The PACT Act brings these changes: - Expands and extends eligibility for VA health care for Veterans with toxic exposures and Veterans of the Vietnam, Gulf War, and post-9/11 eras - Adds 20+ more presumptive conditions for burn pits, Agent Orange, and other toxic exposures - Add…

I only have health care now due to the PACT Act. Absolutely pissed about what is happening to the VA now.

This is what happens when people (a lot of veterans/current army personnel, also basically all gun nuts) vote for a guy who very actively avoided serving his country in vietnam war, thanx to nepotism of his uber rich parents.

Such person will never hold veterans in high esteem, all people under him are meat bags to use and throw away once not needed and long term care for wounded is expensive, especially in US. Compare it to somebody who actually went through the experience, be it just mandatory draft or actual combat.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#58

Post by tylerflick »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #41

Hard to say how this will actually go but as a vet, I've had some pretty poor experiences with the government support networks as a whole, and the VA is no exception; I know the VA has improved from the horror days of 03-06 but it certainly feels like it could have done so much more, especially after we got out of Iraq and the overall operation tempo dropped. I have friends who were hurt 15+ years ago now, and have b…

I haven’t found it any worse than many private health systems. The one thing the VA has going for it, is it’s a single medical network. I’ve only seen this replicated elsewhere at Kaiser.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#59

Post by blindriver »

efnx wrote: post #55
blindriver wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hate this attitude. "$24 billion a year is nothing compared to the deficit so we should just ignore it and keep spending." Spending cuts have to start SOMEWHERE. Saying $24 billion is ignorable is insane. We are in a critical debt situation and my children's future is at stake.

The attitude comes from a point of analysis, and the argument that follows is that we can save by cutting spending in specific areas that we overspend in (military) and we could rake in lots more in taxes by making the rich _pay their fare share_. The current firing of government workers is about political alignment, not about cost. Cost is a pretext.

I believe we should gut military spending. That doesn't mean that hiring 82,000 employees in 5 years is justified. I'm happy to see spending cuts straight across the board.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#60

Post by jajko »

bdangubic wrote: post #21
blindriver wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Veteran suicide can be massively helped with psilosibin and ketamine therapy, things that I hope RFK Jr will implement quickly.

yea, if you watched / listened / observed / ... RFK Jr you can definitely conclude that he is ALL ABOUT drugs and more drugs... :)

I presume you guys mean the man, when he was still a boy, frequently tortured his pets to death? Even his own family was openly disgusted by him. That's really a leader into healthy lifestyle, not sure for whom though
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