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Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

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Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#51

If you're a computer science student who is thinking of using this, don't. Don't use Copilot, Gemini, Cursor or any other code assisting tool for the several first years of your study or career. You will write code slower than others, sure, but what you'll learn and what you build will be a hundred times more useful for you than when you just copy and paste 'stuff' from AI. Invest in fundamentals, learn best practice…

I just interviewed someone for a Senior position who's been using these AI copilots for 1.5 years as a contractor. In the interview I politely said I wanted to evaluate their skills without AI, so no Cursor/Copilots allowed. They did not remember how to map through an array, define a function, add click/change handlers to input, etc.

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Do you not understand that, at the end of the day, you'll also still stuck living in the nightmarish hellscape you spend your days trying to usher in? I live by the sea and spend most of my time with family or working in healthcare. Software for me pays the bills and the less time I spend on it, the better. LLMs allow me to spend ~1/3rd the time I used to without impacting my remuneration. Of course I use them, in…

Healthcare workers aren't negatively affected by having to put up with shitty software that doesn't actually work?

That's news to me.

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you not understand that, at the end of the day, you'll also still stuck living in the nightmarish hellscape you spend your days trying to usher in? I live by the sea and spend most of my time with family or working in healthcare. Software for me pays the bills and the less time I spend on it, the better. LLMs allow me to spend ~1/3rd the time I used to without impacting my remuneration. Of course I use them, in…

Healthcare workers aren't negatively affected by having to put up with shitty software that doesn't actually work? That's news to me.

> Healthcare workers aren't negatively affected by having to put up with shitty software that doesn't actually work?

Is your position that code produced with LLMs is _worse_ than the average human developer working alone? I would be far happier if the software I am forced to use professionally had been produced by developers guided by LLMs.

But even if you are right, most software developers don't work on anything important and most don't care about the software they output. You're an enthusiast, which is very much an outlier in software development, and so maybe learning the fundamentals from logic gates is worth it to you (it was to me). LLMs can accelerate that learning immensely.

For the vast majority of people employed writing software, that's not true and forgoing LLMs will permanently stifle their employment prospects.

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#54

If you're a computer science student who is thinking of using this, don't. Don't use Copilot, Gemini, Cursor or any other code assisting tool for the several first years of your study or career. You will write code slower than others, sure, but what you'll learn and what you build will be a hundred times more useful for you than when you just copy and paste 'stuff' from AI. Invest in fundamentals, learn best practice…

I think this is not a good idea or suggestion at all. If i use google maps to find my way around, i'm faster by a lot. I also do remember things despite google maps doing the work for me. Use Code assistent as much as possible but make sure to read and understand what you get and try to write it yourself even if you just write it from a second window. In this age and pace, writing code will change relevant in the nex…

You (a SWE) using google maps is a bit different than a cab driving relying on google maps. The former is fine, the latter could be concerning.

I'd argue that coding assistants for a SWE hinders their ability to build subject matter expertise.

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#55

Here's the terms of service for the plugin: https://developers.google.com/gemini-code-assist/resources/p... This says nothing about Google's use of the data. Anybody have a better link?

https://developers.google.com/gemini-code-assist/resources/p...

Data included in their training by default. You’ll need to opt-out.

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#56

If you're a computer science student who is thinking of using this, don't. Don't use Copilot, Gemini, Cursor or any other code assisting tool for the several first years of your study or career. You will write code slower than others, sure, but what you'll learn and what you build will be a hundred times more useful for you than when you just copy and paste 'stuff' from AI. Invest in fundamentals, learn best practice…

I just interviewed someone for a Senior position who's been using these AI copilots for 1.5 years as a contractor. In the interview I politely said I wanted to evaluate their skills without AI, so no Cursor/Copilots allowed. They did not remember how to map through an array, define a function, add click/change handlers to input, etc.

It's an interesting space for discussion.

What I've found after developing software for many decades and learning many languages is that the concepts and core logical thinking are what is most important in most cases.

Before the current AI boom I would still have had a problem doing some tasks in a vacuum as well. Not because I was incapable, but because I had so much other relevant information in my head that the minutia of some tasks was irrelevant when I had immediate access to the needed information via auto-complete in an IDE and language documentation. I know what I needed to look up because of all that other knowledge in my head though. I knew things were possible. And in cases where I didn't _know_ something was possible, I had an inkling that something might be possible because I could do it in another language or it was a logical extension of some other concept.

With the current rage of AI Coding Copilots I personally feel like many people are going down a path that degrades that corpus of general knowledge that drives the ability to solve problems quickly. Instead they lean on the coding assistant to have that knowledge and simple direct it to do the tasks at a macro level. On the surface this may seem like a universal boon, but the reality is they are giving up that intrinsic domain knowledge that is needed to be functional at understanding what software is doing and how to solve the problems that will crop up.

If those two paragraphs seem contradictory in some manner, I agree. You can argue that leaning on IDE syntax autocomplete and looking up documentation not foundationally different than leaning on a coding assistant. I can only say that they don't _feel_ the same to me. Maybe what I mean is, if the assistant is writing code and you are directly using it, then you never gain knowledge. If you are looking things up in documentation or using auto-complete for function names or arguments, you are learning about the code and how to solve a problem. So maybe it's just, what abstraction level are we, as a profession, comfortable with?

To close out this oddly long comment, I personally use LLMs and other ML models frequently. I have found that they are excellent at helping me formulate my thoughts on a problem that needs to be solved and to surface information across a lot of sources into a coherent understanding of an issue. Sure, it's possible that it's wrong, but I just use it to help steer me towards the real information I need. If I ask for or it provides code, that's used as a reference implementation for the actual implementation I write. And my IDE auto-complete has gotten a boost as well. It's much better at understanding the context of what I'm writing and providing guesses as to what I'm about to type. It's quite good. Most of the time. But it's also wrong in very subtle ways that require careful reading to notice. And I'll sum this paragraph up with the fact that I'm turning to an LLM more and more as a first search before I hit a search engine (yet I hate Google's AI search results).

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#57
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is bad advice to people with the correct posture. If you want to learn: don't use these models to do the things for you. Do use these models to learn. LLMs might not the best teachers in the world but they're available right there and then when you have a question. Don't take their answers for granted and test them. Ask to teach you the correct terms for things you don't know yet, so you can ask better questions…

I had this argument with Mark Cuban recently and he admitted he was wrong, my example was using a calculator to learn calculus.... We are forgetting what general purpose name means to learning and real practical usage as a tool. BTW the best AI and Computer Science discussions are happening on bluesky

I can't tell what were your respective positions. In many ways

    LLMs : computer science = [opposite of calculator] : calculus
A calculator will not let you discover terms for you to BFS/DFS knowledge on.

It will not help find the terms of art for fuzzy concepts you encountered and can barely describe.

It is not a learning accelerator.

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just interviewed someone for a Senior position who's been using these AI copilots for 1.5 years as a contractor. In the interview I politely said I wanted to evaluate their skills without AI, so no Cursor/Copilots allowed. They did not remember how to map through an array, define a function, add click/change handlers to input, etc.

It's an interesting space for discussion. What I've found after developing software for many decades and learning many languages is that the concepts and core logical thinking are what is most important in most cases. Before the current AI boom I would still have had a problem doing some tasks in a vacuum as well. Not because I was incapable, but because I had so much other relevant information in my head that the mi…

The situation opened up a very interesting discussion on our team. All of us on the team use AI tools in our job (you'd be a fool not to these days). I even use the copilot tool that the candidate used. But the difference is that I don't rely on it, and any code it produces I'm actively registering in my head. I would never let it write something that I don't understand without taking the time to understand it myself.

I do agree though. Why do intellisense and copilots feel so different from one another? I think part of it is that with intellisense you generally need to start the action before it auto suggests, whereas with copilots you don't even need to initiate the action.

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#59
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is bad advice to people with the correct posture. If you want to learn: don't use these models to do the things for you. Do use these models to learn. LLMs might not the best teachers in the world but they're available right there and then when you have a question. Don't take their answers for granted and test them. Ask to teach you the correct terms for things you don't know yet, so you can ask better questions…

I feel bad for anyone learning to code now. The temptation to just LLM it must be sooooo high. But at the same time, having personalised StackOverflow without the negative attitude at your fingertips is super helpful, provided you also do the work of learning.

Don't feel bad: LLMs make it so much easier to learn thinks without getting stuck at frustrating nonsense, yet there remain enough hurdles so that you need to develop resilience.

Re: Google gifts a Free AI Coding Assistant to the developer community

#60

Apropos nothing, Annatar was a very good disguise for Sauron to use to gain the elves' trust but secretly have them forge something for himself.

Unrelatedly, Google uses which completions users accept to train their AI further.
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