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Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

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Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#51

Post by johnnyanmac »

scarab92 wrote: post #50
johnnyanmac wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he did say this day one. And despite feelinig like eternity, we're only entering week 5. This would be considered "fast" by any other administraion. But yes. I remember when Americans used to care about politicians creating American jobs as a populist stance. Those days feel like decades ago now with people celebrating the literal slashing of government jobs (who surprise, is the biggest US employer).

Government spending doesn’t necessarily create jobs, since the money it spends is taken from other people (as either taxes or inflation). It merely redistributes jobs.

From a micro level, a person gets money and they get to go about their business. I imagine that's the level of thinking many everyman has on this.

But sure, The government is redistributing its wealth and helps stimulate the rest of the economy with the workers they employ. Even for private sector it keeps the wheel turning.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#53

Post by throw0101c »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #26
jmclnx wrote: post #12

Fully expected, surprised it took this long. IIRC, the funds went to mostly red states. So MAGA people, happy your guy came through for you again ?

he did say this day one. And despite feelinig like eternity, we're only entering week 5. This would be considered "fast" by any other administraion. But yes. I remember when Americans used to care about politicians creating American jobs as a populist stance. Those days feel like decades ago now with people celebrating the literal slashing of government jobs (who surprise, is the biggest US employer).

> I remember when Americans used to care about politicians creating American jobs as a populist stance.

That's what the tariffs are for. Trump 1.0 gave the US washing machine tariffs and got 1800 jobs on-shored at the cost of $800k/job:

* https://www.nber.org/papers/w25767

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#54

Post by johnnyanmac »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #38
johnnyanmac wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he did say this day one. And despite feelinig like eternity, we're only entering week 5. This would be considered "fast" by any other administraion. But yes. I remember when Americans used to care about politicians creating American jobs as a populist stance. Those days feel like decades ago now with people celebrating the literal slashing of government jobs (who surprise, is the biggest US employer).

Most Americans care about creating American jobs in the private sector not about growing the government by creating more government jobs. More Americans are employed by industry and small businesses (as it should be) than by government. Why would you think there needs to be one giant employer instead of a healthy market of many? Stats: The Bureau of Labor and Statistics puts the total number of Americans employed by…

>More Americans are employed by industry and small businesses (as it should be) than by government.

sure, millions of businesses if you divide it that way. Meanwhile the government is still the largest single employer in the us. Wal-Mart's global market, by comparison (the largest private market in the US) is 2.1m.

>Why would you think there needs to be one giant employer instead of a healthy market of many?

Why is Google bigger than a startup? They deal with more money and people. The government isn't running like a business but is still running on a scale of managing trillions of dollars and caring for hundreds of millions of americans. Why wouldn't our government be large?

Also, private sector hasn't exactly been stable the last 15 years if you're a normal worker. That's pretty much the one advantadge of public sector until employers can't throw out employees like livestock whenever they fancy. People claim to want more teachers but treat them horribly.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#55

Post by _fs »

Bostonian wrote: post #6

It's not the business of the federal government to encourage or discourage investment in an industry. When it does subsidize investment, it often comes with strings attached that don't help the industry in the long run.

What about when the lack of advanced chips are a real threat to our technological advantage, in addition to the fact that our largest threats are pouring billions of subsidized currency in to their own comparable industry.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#56

Post by throw0101c »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #15

Delete subsidy carrot, replace with tariff stick?

> Delete subsidy carrot, replace with tariff stick?

Tariffs are both subsidies and taxes at the same time; see "Tariffs Give U.S. Steelmakers a Green Light to Lift Prices":

> Executives from U.S. steel companies were enthusiastic backers of the 2018 tariffs and have urged Trump to deploy them again in his second term. They have called for the elimination of tariff exemptions and duty-free import quotas, saying those carve-outs allow unfairly low-price steel to enter the U.S. and undermine the steel market.

[…]

> Higher prices for imported steel are often followed by domestic suppliers raising their own prices, which then get passed through supply chains, manufacturing executives said. For consumers already reeling from rising retail prices and inflation, pricier steel and aluminum could further lift costs for durable goods like appliances and automobiles, as well as consumer products with aluminum packaging, such as canned beverages.

> “The issue with tariffs is everybody raises their prices, even the domestics,” said Ralph Hardt, owner of Belleville International, a Pennsylvania-based manufacturer of valves and components used in the energy and defense industries. Steel and aluminum are Belleville’s largest expenses.

* http://archive.is/https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/trump-ta...

So tariffs are taxes in the sense that consumers are paying higher prices. But they are subsidies in that domestic companies don't have as much pressure on prices and can get more money.

So if you want to help a particular industry might as well just go with subsidies directly instead of the taxation add-on as well.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#57

Post by johnnyanmac »

throw0101c wrote: post #53
johnnyanmac wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he did say this day one. And despite feelinig like eternity, we're only entering week 5. This would be considered "fast" by any other administraion. But yes. I remember when Americans used to care about politicians creating American jobs as a populist stance. Those days feel like decades ago now with people celebrating the literal slashing of government jobs (who surprise, is the biggest US employer).

> I remember when Americans used to care about politicians creating American jobs as a populist stance. That's what the tariffs are for. Trump 1.0 gave the US washing machine tariffs and got 1800 jobs on-shored at the cost of $800k/job: * https://www.nber.org/papers/w25767

Yup, I'm sure glad all that money went towards those workers and we could get more washing machines into homes, right?

> We find that in response to the 2018 tariffs on nearly all source countries, the price of washers rose by nearly 12 percent; the price of dryers—a complementary good not subject to tariffs—increased by an equivalent amount.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#58

Post by yongjik »

jmclnx wrote: post #12

Fully expected, surprised it took this long. IIRC, the funds went to mostly red states. So MAGA people, happy your guy came through for you again ?

Keeping high-paying semiconductor jobs out of red states would keep the red states poor, devoid of liberal-leaning professionals, and full of resentment. Sound like a win-win to Trump.

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#59

Post by nativeit »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #43

This one really doesn't make sense if you actually want to MAGA, since advanced chips is a critical area for the US to maintain leadership. China is meanwhile pouring many $billions into catching up. The Chinese can't believe their good luck. No need for them to do anything -- just let the US self-destruct.

Also worth noting the 50% tariff on Chinese semiconductors (and other tech components). So US companies can’t even get low-priced imports to make their products competitive. We’re stuck with high-priced domestic labor, who are not sufficiently skilled for the work, whose companies can’t fund or complete the work, and aren’t allowed to hire and/or buy foreign. Some American dynamism…

Re: Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees

#60

Post by scarab92 »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #51
scarab92 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government spending doesn’t necessarily create jobs, since the money it spends is taken from other people (as either taxes or inflation). It merely redistributes jobs.

From a micro level, a person gets money and they get to go about their business. I imagine that's the level of thinking many everyman has on this. But sure, The government is redistributing its wealth and helps stimulate the rest of the economy with the workers they employ. Even for private sector it keeps the wheel turning.

Government doesn’t really have “its wealth”.

By taking trillions away from the private sector (in taxes, inflation), it costs the economy tens of millions of jobs.

It then spends that to create new jobs. Some of that spending has a positive ROI, such as employing 100 police, to allow 10,000 people to focus about innovating rather than their own safety. On the flip side are many of the jobs in Washington, which dont create any multiplicative benefits for society and are net negative.

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