Done me fine for the last decade. Along with all the other languages that kept me in employment. I still use it daily.
Why Clojure?
51–60 of 302 posts
Re: Why Clojure?
#52Arne has written, as usual, an excellent piece. Not only it argues its intended points, but it can also be followed by everybody-it brings readers up to speed without assuming any significant background knowledge.
Re: Why Clojure?
#53I run a multi-million dollar business which I started with common lisp. I since moved away to go and then rust but I've been looking at clojure again lately. For a team that needs to get s** done and has more per employee productivity than Faang combined it's hard to beat the speed with which you can build things when you have the repl and interactive programming. The jvm while doesn't have great error messages is a…
Did you move from CL because of hiring or another reason? I cannot imagine leaving CL and if I had to, I would go for abcl and then add clojure. Depending on the business that is of course. As long as I don't need to build a 1000s person tech team, I would not move; it's just far faster until you get to a scale where processes take over everything.
Hiring. And honestly the docs and stuff look really dated and I understand why people are a bit put off. At some point you have to modernize the look and feel of the ecosystem. The docs are really detailed though and if it was just me and a few others I would have gone to CL in a heartbeat.
Re: Why Clojure?
#54Who are these articles for? I feel like Clojure’s value proposition is pretty well understood, and every last Clojure pitch can be relied upon to make the same exact points.
Re: Why Clojure?
#55The part about the "stability" is a bit surprising - in my experience, I try playing with clojure about once a year, and every time, everything is different (I mean, I had to go through classpathes, then lein, then boot, then deps.edn - what is the current way to "try and run a program" du jour ?) Also, is running your "hello world" still going to be incredibly slow, or has something changed in the core system (I kno…
10+ years ago Clojure had a fantastic introductory experience. lein new and away you go. lein was so good and effective, for both tiny hello world projects and real production apps.
The experience has gotten worse and worse now for a decade. The core team have continued to take things in a worse direction (supported by a small group of fanboys) and most newcomers are now completely baffled by the tooling.
Re: Why Clojure?
#56I run a multi-million dollar business which I started with common lisp. I since moved away to go and then rust but I've been looking at clojure again lately. For a team that needs to get s** done and has more per employee productivity than Faang combined it's hard to beat the speed with which you can build things when you have the repl and interactive programming. The jvm while doesn't have great error messages is a…
I feel like there’s a minimum developer quality that’s needed when using a language like Clojure, without static typing, and with a wealth of idioms and best practices that need to be followed and libraries that need to be known. Without it it’s a matter of time before the codebase can’t be developed anymore and the software doesn’t work as intended.
well i agree you need developers who are on the senior side but thinking about data and pipelines, multi methods etc, makes for a quite extensible, large, applications.
the fact that because of the repl the happy path is always tested while being built and with clojure spec you can secure the edges, it is quite scalable.
i love static typing and rust in general but with web applications, the problem space is really a distributed concurrency problem of dynamic data. and clojure is basically tailor made for that.
Re: Why Clojure?
#57I run a multi-million dollar business which I started with common lisp. I since moved away to go and then rust but I've been looking at clojure again lately. For a team that needs to get s** done and has more per employee productivity than Faang combined it's hard to beat the speed with which you can build things when you have the repl and interactive programming. The jvm while doesn't have great error messages is a…
Why did you move away from go?
I don't use it, but seems like productive language, being simple, fast to compile and performant.
Re: Why Clojure?
#58The part about the "stability" is a bit surprising - in my experience, I try playing with clojure about once a year, and every time, everything is different (I mean, I had to go through classpathes, then lein, then boot, then deps.edn - what is the current way to "try and run a program" du jour ?) Also, is running your "hello world" still going to be incredibly slow, or has something changed in the core system (I kno…
While clojure has gained (accreted) more options of ways to run things, every single one of the ways you mentioned still work! It’s extremely stable in this regard. Nothing was taken away because there is a new hotness. Sure, things were added. Why is that bad at all?
Personally, I prefer it when there is a solid default tool chain for a language rather than having to choose from one of several. That way, I know pretty much what to expect when I open any project in that language. I feel like this is one of the few places where Clojure dropped the ball and that deps.edn should've been there from the get-go.
Re: Why Clojure?
#59Idk ... it feels Clojure stalled since Nubank bought Hickeys company. Worst thing: spec is still in alpha !! I put so much on this ... but nothing really happened since ... idk 8 years?
Call it “stalled” if you like, it’s stable and it’s pure joy. I can just get stuff done with Clojure. And things that may seem inactive, like that lib that you need that hasn’t had a commit in 8 years, turns out that it just works and doesn’t need to change. This is commonplace in Clojure. Spec is still alpha and I’m not sure it will evolve more or if it’ll be something completely different. At least they’re not push…
There are things in the core language that are still kind of bullshit. The thing that gives me the most headaches is how annoying it is to use Java libraries that have the lambda syntax.
You can't just pass in a Clojure `fn` into a Java lambda function. You have to `reify` the interface and implement the single method. It's annoying and verbose and frustratingly the equivalent code is considerably cleaner in Java as a result.
I know that this is a product of how Java implemented lambdas by having interfaces with a single method, and I'm not saying that it would be trivial to add into Clojure, but I don't think it's impossible and I think people have been complaining about this for more than a decade now.
So while I love Clojure, it's probably my favorite language, I do get a little annoyed when people act like it's "stable" because there's nothing to fix.
Re: Why Clojure?
#60The part about the "stability" is a bit surprising - in my experience, I try playing with clojure about once a year, and every time, everything is different (I mean, I had to go through classpathes, then lein, then boot, then deps.edn - what is the current way to "try and run a program" du jour ?) Also, is running your "hello world" still going to be incredibly slow, or has something changed in the core system (I kno…
I have been building my (money-earning SaaS) app with leiningen for 10 years now. There is no "du jour", unless you choose to be "du jour".
If you care about startup time (I don't, my app starts only once), you can use babashka for scripting.