Earlier quoted context omitted.
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that has changed drastically recently. Big drops in sales in EU.
And have other EV makers seen more success or have they all had declines?
How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
51–60 of 311 posts
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.
This sounds like political venting more than a financial analysis.
"Tesla’s sales plummet across Europe"
Financial Times January 2025
https://www.ft.com/content/ea2329e4-b4bc-4e2d-be34-e9a8ea311...
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#53Nissan, Honda & eventually Toyota are going to go the way of Nokia/Motorola after iPhone came out. Cheap and reliable Chinese EVs will take over the market (like Android), while Tesla will probably maintain a halo premium product like iPhone.
Tesla is going down the drain, at least in Europe, unless shareholders evict Musk. Nothing iPhone-like with that brand anymore.
Not just Europe: CA sales are down double digits recently as well: https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-california-sales-decline-elec...
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#54At this point I feel like a rising stock price after a crisis should be a major red flag for long term corporate survival. Carlos Ghosn was able to "turn Nissan around", but it was at the expense of future product capabilities (in my opinion) [Disclosure I work for GM, this is solely my own opinion] Also, I must say that it is not clear to me that anyone could know what a long term winning play looked like 10-15 year…
Under Goshn and his close early advisors, Renault-Nissan started working on EVs, launching the Leaf and Zoé. Early, he also managed to streamline production of the two companies, and started to implement management changes that let some workers have more autonomy. The issue is that power got to his head and truly believe he was the second coming of Jesus or something, and stopped improving his companies to rub should…
> My personal theory is that the fallout from his divorce ...
Yes, I've noticed that people having nasty public fights with family members can lead to extremely negative effects on decision making.
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
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that has changed drastically recently. Big drops in sales in EU.
Other EV manufacturers are essentially picking up the lost sales and the EV market as a whole is up marginally.
https://evmagazine.com/news/teslas-european-decline-musks-ev...
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Amazing you feel that EVs are somehow more maintenance than ICEs. There exist EVs that have never had any manufacturer/dealer input since the day they rolled off the lot. Tesla/Nio are a bad examples - many EVs were built to be sold and essentially ignored by the manufacturer.
After that EV company goes out of business, how are you going to replace that bespoke {$random_part} that broke? Any Fisker Ocean owners want to chime in?[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Ocean
Never mind the parts, how do you get your firmware updated without being held hostage?
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's wild how different experiences can be. I've had some shitboxes in my day. One car had an air intake that would fall off, so you'd occasionally have to keep the RPMs above 2k or it would stall. One car was a 1970s Russian van held together with duct tape and prayers. The door fell off while driving one day, so I wired it back on with roadside scrap and kept going. The newish old model 3 I had for a few weeks duri…
You couldn't see through the rear window if it was raining too hard. You think there was a glass defect? or was it just wet?
If there's too much rain, the water sheets off the low slope and makes it impossible to see. It needed fairly heavy rain for this to happen, but not so much that I felt uncomfortable driving (sans rear visibility issue).
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand what went wrong here, for a while the Nissan Leaf was _the_ economical all electric sedan. Toyota was and still is dragging their feet on it and Nissan had a lead for years just to blow it?
For starters, the Leaf wasn't a sedan, it was a hatchback. In the US market, hatchbacks have always significantly lagged sedans in sales despite being more practical. The regular Prius has evolved to look sleeker and sportier with each generation, but the boxy hatchback Prius V variant was quickly discontinued after introduction due to poor sales. US consumer preference seems to weigh aesthetic appeal much more than…
Several things: hatchbacks do great if you size the up and call them "crossover SUVs" - see Mach-E, Ioniq 5, EV6, Ariya, etc.
Also sedans do have a feature - less road noise than a hatchback.
The Leaf failed because a) fast charger support was poor (Chademo vs DC fast or NACS) and slow. b) battery thermal management STILL isn't acceptable and results in degradation.
We got one as a rental and it was really comfortable but I wouldn't buy it because of the above.
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#59This basically means Nissan is dying. It's finances are screwed right now, and this was essentially their last hope. Nissan may not survive the year.
They’ve had multiple quarters where sales dropped by 90%, they’ve been dying for over a decade.
Re: How Nissan and Honda's $60B merger talks collapsed
#60Nissan, Honda & eventually Toyota are going to go the way of Nokia/Motorola after iPhone came out. Cheap and reliable Chinese EVs will take over the market (like Android), while Tesla will probably maintain a halo premium product like iPhone.
I have huge doubts that Teslas will retain a "halo premium", except in some very strange circles. Already they're an embarrassing car to own and the financials of that company are rapidly flushing down the toilet, making it a question of how long it will be a going concern (hence all the frantic rushing around for legitimacy in other markets...robots, why not?) They are widely cited as unreliable, poorly built vehicl…
> Already they're an embarrassing car to own
I don't know if that's true, but I find it all pretty funny regardless.
Five or more years ago, people hated Tesla drivers, either because they represented wealth or that they were seen as progressive 'tree huggers'.
Today people seem to hate Tesla drivers because the brand is for right wing nazis.
I think both takes are misguided, and I don't know how popular those takes are, but I can't help but finding the 180 humorous.
For context, I'm not taking a side and don't have a strong opinion either way. I don't own and wouldn't own one, but for reasons with nothing to do with politics or quality.