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EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

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Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#51

Post by myrmidon »

meinersbur wrote: post #18

I am urprised how much money suddenly is available where other future-critical projects are starved of funding while needing just a fraction of that amount, specifically nuclear fusion.

What makes fusion research "future critical"? I honestly don't see any realistic timeline where fusion energy contributes >10% to any nations electricity grid in 2040.

Sure, throwing money at the problem might accelerate things marginally, but you might as well build out renewables, battery storage and invest into grid connectivity, with greater effect (over the next decades), less risk and faster RoI.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#52

Post by tiberius_p »

_ink_ wrote: post #7
tiberius_p wrote: post #2

We need to invest in defense not in AI.

Sadly, AI will be needed for defense.

Yes, but what kind of AI? LLM chatbots or military robotics? LLMs seem to be drawing most of the money these days and I don't think that should be the focus of the EU. We need advanced drones and anti-drone defense systems, advanced air defense against hypersonic missiles and glided aviation bombs, high precision artillery systems, anti-tank weapons. I don't see LLMs making any breakthroughs in those fields. Maybe transformer neural networks can be tuned to solve some prediction problems in these areas. Maybe some vision models can be tuned to detect and track aerial threats, or movements of troops. My point is, we need investment in AI for defense not in customer support chatbots. Unless it's chatbots that generate smart military moves on the battle field...we don't need them. Let the Americans and the Chinese play with their chit-chatbots. We have bigger fish to fry.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#53

Post by tmnvdb »

gizmo wrote: post #21

It's a good thing that EU leadership is finally waking up to the urgency of renewed competitiveness, but the greatest problems are not addressed or even mentioned: 1. Europe's most ambitious entrepreneurs leave for silicon valley because audacious ambition is heavily discouraged culturally. Europe has many talented engineers and many founders who aim for "reasonable" success, but that's really not sufficient. 2. Big…

Your analysis points out some real problems, but I think they are more systemic rather than just cultural. (This is not to say that the cultural issues are not real)

1. Startups mostly leave because Europe doesn not have a private capital ecosystem and hence entrepreneurs can not get sufficient funding for growth.

2. There is some truth to this statement in the sense that some people have this mentality but is not true in general. There are profitable companies in Europe and there are jurisdictions (Denmark, Ireland, Estonia, etc) where it is reasonably attractive to have a company. The data does not show that this makes a difference: the biggest startup markets are still in the larger countries that have a larger (capital) market, even though these countries are usually more hostile to business.

3. Yes, that is the case with all government subsidies, however often their founding documents claim to wish to support small and new things.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#54

Post by cbg0 »

pantalaimon wrote: post #40
olivierduval wrote: post #39

Sadly, that money will be wasted: * that money will go to "big corp" who know and have to time to build application forms... even if they don't have the knowledge ("take the money and run") * that money wont to the "real disruptors" that are small corps because they don't have time or knowledge to build application forms to get the money

Only big corp have the capacity to comply with EU regulation in the first place.

There's typically much less red tape for smaller funding programs from the EU, so if you're only getting a couple hundred thousand you'll deal with a lot less requirements than a company getting tens of millions. There's still bureaucracy, but it's not as insurmountable as some make it out to be.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#56

Post by yvdriess »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #23
randunel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. The EU grants are ridiculously red tapey. Companies have entire departments dedicated to the red tape that European grants require, from the initial participation / auction with hundreds or thousands of pages of documentation, through various stages of thorough checkbox ticking, to the final reception of the project. Only the usual players with well established "EU Funds" departments can realistically get the…

I have seen (and worked in) a number of startups that did receive research grants including AI research in Germany. This notion of terrible European bureaucracy is exaggerated. It’s not worse than anywhere else in the world.

Can confirm. I experienced EU EC research project red tape to similar than DARPA.

Most of the red tape comes from excesses or abuses from the past. Government agencies tend to slap an extra layer of rules every time the grant money is being misused.

Those kind of rules also reveal what is being interpreted as misuse or abuse. For instance, you cannot expense a meal that includes an alcoholic beverage on an US federal budget.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#57

Post by jycr753 »

Zoadian wrote: post #43
edhelas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why we need Elon to come to Europe and get rid of all those regulations and restrictions! We need a European DOGE!

no, we don't. regulations and restrictions are useful.

Some regulations are definitely good—like food quality standards—when applied correctly and without giving a free pass to other countries (e.g., Morocco, Ukraine).

But then you have bad regulations, such as NIS, salary "transparency," nuclear energy restrictions, the Digital Markets Act, the AI Act, and Farm to Fork, among others.

On top of that, there’s the massive cost to taxpayers just to keep those people in Brussels.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#58

Post by pantalaimon »

cbg0 wrote: post #54
pantalaimon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only big corp have the capacity to comply with EU regulation in the first place.

There's typically much less red tape for smaller funding programs from the EU, so if you're only getting a couple hundred thousand you'll deal with a lot less requirements than a company getting tens of millions. There's still bureaucracy, but it's not as insurmountable as some make it out to be.

AI Act and Cyber Resilience Act still apply

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#59

Post by pornel »

Here's the source:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_25_...

• strengthen the EU's generative AI talent pool through education, training, skilling and reskilling activities;

• encouragement of public and private investments in AI start-ups and scale-ups, including through venture capital or equity support

• development and deployment of Common European Data Spaces, made available to the AI community

• GenAI4EU: support the development of novel use cases and emerging applications in Europe's 14 industrial ecosystems

• expansion of computing infrastructure to "100 000 last-generation AI chips"

Overall it sounds very similar to last year's announcement:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_...

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