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Mac(OS)talgia

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Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#51

Post by KerrAvon »

ryandrake wrote: post #11
exabrial wrote: post #3

All we ever needed was in Snow Leopard. Everything since then (ok except maybe for SIP and XProtect) is bloatware.

SIP is quite terrible. Requiring an access level higher than root to access system files, and only processes that are signed by Apple and have special entitlements can have that access level? It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple. If they're dead set on using signing to enforce the higher-than-root level, then I should be the one signing the executables. Fortunately, you ca…

Genuinely curious, what are you doing that requires you to turn SIP off? I'd have thought only OS developers and maybe forensics people of various stripes need to do that.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#52

Post by KerrAvon »

cameldrv wrote: post #15

I get the nostalgia, but boy are computers so much better than back then. MacOS 7-8 (not sure about 9, never used it) would crash constantly. There was no protected memory, so as soon as one app started misbehaving, you'd have to reboot the computer and it would take forever and you'd lose your work. My recollection was that this would typically happen 3-4 times a day. Apple's project to make a new MacOS that didn't…

It's unfortunate Apple never shipped any of the modern OS's it worked on from 1988 to 1996. All of them would have had a classic Mac UI style on top of a microkernel. Resurrecting Pink would be an interesting retro move.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#53

Post by CGamesPlay »

favorited wrote: post #45
ryandrake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SIP is quite terrible. Requiring an access level higher than root to access system files, and only processes that are signed by Apple and have special entitlements can have that access level? It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple. If they're dead set on using signing to enforce the higher-than-root level, then I should be the one signing the executables. Fortunately, you ca…

> It's my computer, I should be at the top of the permissions totem pole, not Apple Here are the instructions to enable logging in as root, since privilege escalation seems inconvenient for you: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102367

This does not allow you to modify SIP-protected files.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#54

Post by lmz »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #28
rcarmo wrote: post #23

There’s something about the Platinum UI that makes it timeless. I have been running XFCE with a Platinum theme on several of my machines/VMs for a while ( https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/04/12/2330 ) and I’m a bit sad that the XFCE top-level app menu plugin seems to have been deprecated in recent releases, since it really adds to the experience.

The XFCE global menubar plugin being deprecated likely happened because there’s no standardized way for applications on Linux to surface their menus to the environment for display (or to power a Unity-style HUD or whatever), which means that hackery via plugins for GTK and Qt are required to make a global menubar work. Keeping that hackery functional probably is a constant battle. There’s also how GTK apps have been…

> I know a lot of people hate global menubars but I’ve always loved them and it kills me that they’re not a practical option on the Linux desktop, despite ultimate customizability being one of the most frequently-cited reasons to use Linux as a desktop OS.

Isn't that the point? It's so customizable that app writers opt out of menubars. And the system menubar has no power over the apps.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#55

Post by LimeLimestone »

rahoulb wrote: post #8

I love that. Also the MacOS "Zoom" button makes so much more sense than the OSX/macOS green button - and I still miss window shading.

Press Option and it behave the way it used to. Or you can double click on the top of the app's window

What I miss is not being able to set the priority of WiFi networks

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#56

Post by acherion »

cameldrv wrote: post #15

I get the nostalgia, but boy are computers so much better than back then. MacOS 7-8 (not sure about 9, never used it) would crash constantly. There was no protected memory, so as soon as one app started misbehaving, you'd have to reboot the computer and it would take forever and you'd lose your work. My recollection was that this would typically happen 3-4 times a day. Apple's project to make a new MacOS that didn't…

While what you said is true (MacOS was really unstable in these tumultuous years), this link specifically celebrates the user interface of the later versions of non-OSX MacOS. This doesn't really have a relation to the stability of the OS.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#57

Post by xp84 »

feketegy wrote: post #16
cameldrv wrote: post #15

I get the nostalgia, but boy are computers so much better than back then. MacOS 7-8 (not sure about 9, never used it) would crash constantly. There was no protected memory, so as soon as one app started misbehaving, you'd have to reboot the computer and it would take forever and you'd lose your work. My recollection was that this would typically happen 3-4 times a day. Apple's project to make a new MacOS that didn't…

OS X Lion was the most stable operating system I've ever used. Tbh, it's all downhill from there, every new release gets a little worse not to mention all the hardware issues too.

I still remember in the late oughts, when Mac software updates came out (say, 10.x.1 or whatever, Safari updates, etc.) an app called Software Update would tell you about them, allow you to click to download and install what you wanted, the installation all happened in the background while you worked, and then at the end the SWU dock icon would bounce to prompt you to restart when ready. Guess what? quick option-right-click → Force Quit on the app would shut that up, then you could go about your day and reboot when you were ready.

Today, the Mac harangues you every time you wake it about the updates, then to apply them, you must reboot immediately, and stare at various Apple logos and progress bars for an indeterminate amount of time (no estimates offered).

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#58

Post by gopalv »

acherion wrote: post #56
cameldrv wrote: post #15

I get the nostalgia, but boy are computers so much better than back then. MacOS 7-8 (not sure about 9, never used it) would crash constantly. There was no protected memory, so as soon as one app started misbehaving, you'd have to reboot the computer and it would take forever and you'd lose your work. My recollection was that this would typically happen 3-4 times a day. Apple's project to make a new MacOS that didn't…

While what you said is true (MacOS was really unstable in these tumultuous years), this link specifically celebrates the user interface of the later versions of non-OSX MacOS. This doesn't really have a relation to the stability of the OS.

> this link specifically celebrates the user interface of the later versions of non-OSX MacOS. This doesn't really have a relation to the stability of the OS.

"Very pretty but can't do much" was a general take on the Mac OS cube of the day.

The lack of a fan or any decent cooling, the "lack of a floppy disk" (for those of us who didn't use Zip drives), it was pretty to look at but hard to work with.

We had one to run FrameMaker on, but beyond type-setting (& fonts), it was a shiny thing which was treated like a sunday sports car.

Where I was, the Tex user group is what eventually materialized into a Linux User group and there was simultaneously love for the screen, rendering and fonts for the Mac, but near hatred at having to use it to professionally typeset things.

Math publications quickly jumped ship out of Adobe due to OS 9, but very few came back to the OS X versions until years later when Apple started making really good laptops with fast hardware.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#59

Post by pimlottc »

I kind of like how the retro Zoom has separate windows for each participant. It’s pretty frustrating how little control Zoom (not to mention Meet or Teams) gives you over the layout.

Re: Mac(OS)talgia

#60

Post by goosedragons »

xp84 wrote: post #57
feketegy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X Lion was the most stable operating system I've ever used. Tbh, it's all downhill from there, every new release gets a little worse not to mention all the hardware issues too.

I still remember in the late oughts, when Mac software updates came out (say, 10.x.1 or whatever, Safari updates, etc.) an app called Software Update would tell you about them, allow you to click to download and install what you wanted, the installation all happened in the background while you worked, and then at the end the SWU dock icon would bounce to prompt you to restart when ready. Guess what? quick option-righ…

Modern macOS updates take forever too. I had one clocked at 40 minutes! In that time I could reinstall Ubuntu 4x over.
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