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Changing My Mind On Microsoft

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Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#51

Post by skrebbel »

skrebbel wrote: post #39

> Nowadays nobody under thirty writes anything on Microsoft developer tools unless they are demented or brain-dead. I'm 29 now, switched to mostly doing C# two years ago, and I love it. Its mix of pragmatism, familiarity and modern constructs is unparalleled, and no other truly modern language has this good IDE support. The only thing I don't love about it is the vendor lock-in, but in reality this is a smaller probl…

Self-reply here: naturally, none of this means that the author is wrong on the big picture. I wouldn't be surprised if MS indeed is very much dying. Sad, cause I like their dev tools.

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#52

Post by 127001brewer »

huggyface wrote: post #45
127001brewer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... it is very difficult to find candidates who know anything but Microsoft tools. This may depend on a variety of things, such as the job location and desired skill level, but this blanket statement is false. For example, it seems that a significant number of Hacker News participants - who are developers - develop in other languages and platforms. ... completely detached from reality. My personal opinion is that dev…

This may depend on a variety of things, such as the job location and desired skill level, but this blanket statement is false. The blanket statement was a personal observation about our own hiring, so I can assure you with complete conviction that it is not false. Further I addressed the alternate universe of the start-up world, comprising a tiny, tiny percentage of software developers, and that is what HN caters to.…

Out of curiosity, what are the positions you have open? and where is your company located?

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#53

Post by skrebbel »

jgeralnik wrote: post #32
fingerprinter wrote: post #24

> Nowadays nobody under thirty writes anything on Microsoft developer tools unless they are demented or brain-dead. I see most people saying he is wrong here, though I can't think why. Are there people who thing A. writing software for windows? B. are targeting the windows phone? C. deploying to a cloud (private or public) using Windows servers? If you are targeting a phone, it is most def either iOS or Android, prob…

(Anecdotal counterpoint) For the vast majority of the students at my university, visual studio is the reach-to solution for any problem. They would much rather figure out how to write ASP.NET because visual studio is "awesome" than go around running node.js (what's that?) from a command line.

Yeah, but many of those are going to be the lazy and uninfluential engineers anyway. I'm more interested in why people who do look further than the most obvious option would or would not choose .NET.

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#54

Post by kenjackson »

fingerprinter wrote: post #24

> Nowadays nobody under thirty writes anything on Microsoft developer tools unless they are demented or brain-dead. I see most people saying he is wrong here, though I can't think why. Are there people who thing A. writing software for windows? B. are targeting the windows phone? C. deploying to a cloud (private or public) using Windows servers? If you are targeting a phone, it is most def either iOS or Android, prob…

The number of people actively developing new desktop apps for Windows has to be tiny. Maybe even smaller than tiny.

Wrong. Windows desktop application development is still huge. Take a look at sites like download.cnet.com and look at how many apps get added each day. And this generally doesn't include the huge ecosystem of things like Office add-ins.

The Window's market isn't a growth market right now, but it's a market where there's still a lot of code being produced for it.

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#55

Post by dneb7 »

dman wrote: post #17
dneb7 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great thing about propietary software and one OS (Windows specifically, OS X too though) is people using those operating systems expect to pay for their software. I'd love to come out with a Linux version of my software, but I'd then be competing with 10 free versions, and worse, a mindset that expects everything to be free. I gotta eat!

Before you classify a whole community of users as cheapskates look at the data - http://www.inatux.com/?r=humble-indie-bundle-shows-gnu-linux...

Thanks for that -- a bit surprising really (current stats show Linux users out giving the other two). Is that because they are more willing to pay for software as Linux goes mainstream, or desperate for games? (honest question)

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#56

Post by dneb7 »

maayank wrote: post #16
dneb7 wrote: post #7

His attack on using developer tools was harsh, but I'm over 30 so it didn't apply :) But seriously, I'm afraid he is close to the truth. As a career Windows programmer, I have great fear for the future after having tried the 2012 preview -- I've never felt so lost on a computer in my life. For my own selfish sake, I keep praying they'll make some changes before final release.

move to greener pastures. Install Linux in a VM and start to program some hobby project on it.

In my case, I sell my own software. So having a market that will buy my software is first priority. Providing support all day is not how I prefer to make a living. (that's fearful me talking)

I'd love to know the percentages of independent Windows devs that make a living selling software vs percentage of Linux devs that can make a living selling software. Sure, big companies will employ both, but how does it work out for the small guys?

Edit: I will admit Linux and its ecosystem are looking more and more attractive all the time...

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#57

Post by cbaleanu »

evo_9 wrote: post #42
bryanlarsen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is historically very typical for Microsoft. Windows ME sucked. Windows XP was great. Windows Vista sucked. Windows 7 was great. At least that was the perception. Reality is more nuanced, of course. And business is very conservative, they never upgrade immediately. For business, the alternative to Windows 8 is Windows 7 or Windows XP. It isn't OS X or Linux or Android. Microsoft does better if they switch to…

There were no serious threats to their dominance before; now they have iOS, Android and even OS-X is starting to gain more marketshare than I'd be comfortable with if I were ballmer.

I really don't see the point that many HN users keep comparing apples with oranges. iOS and Android have no relevance in this discussion as they are not real OS'es. You cannot develop on them, you cannot do work on them except for replying emails and browsing some webpages. And that's how it will remain.

OSX is great, but please post the link from Apple store where you can get a decent working laptop for under $500. Good luck with that.

From a developer's perspective, I think we should keep a more clearheaded approach to this entire debate and not turn HN into a fanboy forum.

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#58

Post by jmcqk6 »

skrebbel wrote: post #39

> Nowadays nobody under thirty writes anything on Microsoft developer tools unless they are demented or brain-dead. I'm 29 now, switched to mostly doing C# two years ago, and I love it. Its mix of pragmatism, familiarity and modern constructs is unparalleled, and no other truly modern language has this good IDE support. The only thing I don't love about it is the vendor lock-in, but in reality this is a smaller probl…

Yeah, the author is apparently unaware that C# is one of the few truly multi-platform languages, which runs on Android, iPhone, OS X, Linux, windows of course, and whatever other platform the mono people have since added.

I don't even get the complaint about vendor lock-in. What does using C# lock you into (especially compared to the use of other languages)? Sure, it's possible to use C# in such a way that you're stuck with microsoft tech, but it's not mandated that this is the case.

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#59

Post by jetti »

skrebbel wrote: post #39

> Nowadays nobody under thirty writes anything on Microsoft developer tools unless they are demented or brain-dead. I'm 29 now, switched to mostly doing C# two years ago, and I love it. Its mix of pragmatism, familiarity and modern constructs is unparalleled, and no other truly modern language has this good IDE support. The only thing I don't love about it is the vendor lock-in, but in reality this is a smaller probl…

I'm 27 and have been programming in C# for 3 years using Visual Studio Express or Professional (started with Express and got a license for Pro 2 years ago).

You can use Microsoft developer tools to create platform agnostic code. So I fail to see how using a great product would make somebody "demented" or "brain-dead". If this attitude is common in other parts of the world, than it is no wonder that it is hard to find people who know MS languages well.

Re: Changing My Mind On Microsoft

#60

Post by jmcqk6 »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #36

The "nobody under 30 writes MS" statement is obviously false at it's core but perhaps it means something slightly different? I imagine most of the under-30 devs working on MS software are being hired by established companies to work on enterprise type software or for consultancies building websites using ASP.net etc. What about people under 30 who are starting their own businesses from scratch? For example startups,…

I'm in a startup that uses C# and ruby, ASP.NET MVC, and PostgreSQL.

All software we right has to pass tests on windows and linux (we'll add os x when we get an os x computer). I know we're not conventional, but we feel like these are the best tools.

Anything else is just an argument from popularity and isn't worth our time.

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