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Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

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Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other things marketed as playful or safe for kids in the US; - Bicycles (Over 500 deaths a year) - Battery powered toys (Roughly 2500 battery ingestions a year, Roughly 2% Fatality Rate) - Bottles, Pacifiers etc. (2200 ER Injuries per year)

You're being deceptive. How many deaths per bicycle, per battery, and per bottle ?

Agreed. Some other factors...these are a toy, having no other useful function. And, perhaps they could be designed to be more safe. There are lots of other magnet toys that are more safe.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#52
Interesting application of what I might call the "visible effect bias" here. (See: "That Which is Seen and That Which is not Seen" http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html)

The CPSC sues, complaining that warning labels are ineffective, because parents introduce the toys to their children anyway. The warning labels are ineffective because almost every toy small enough to be put in a mouth has a warning label attached to the effect of "choking hazard; not suitable for children", even if the toys are perfectly safe (which is to say, harm almost never occurs).

Toys are attached with false warning labels because if by some chance a child does choke, either the parents or the CPSC can sue, citing the absence of warning labels. The suitors can win even if the incident was unlikely, due to hindsight bias. Hence, it costs the company nothing to exaggerate the danger by adding a warning label, in order to protect themselves from liability.

So, what is seen by the regulatory system is that putting on a warning label could have prevented such-and-such a case of choking/injury. What is not seen is that adding redundant warning labels decreases the informational value of true warnings, causing increased future cases of choking/injury from truly dangerous products.

Ironically in this case the regulators then sue, arguing that warning labels are insufficient because parents ignore them, due to a problem that was originally created by regulators being too eager to sue!

Now, I haven't looked for any data showing that this is what happened in this case, but it seems to be a common pattern (for example, "may contain traces of peanuts"; and excessive waiting times for FDA approval of livesaving drugs).

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#53
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a totally ridiculous comparison. I'm not in favor of the ban, but comparing a knife (something dangerous that no sane parent would let their kid play with) to this (something less dangerous that is explicitly a toy that most parents would have no problem letting their kids play with) is ridiculous.

So if 12 parents let their children play with knives (and the children were harmed) like the 12 instances for Buckyballs, we should ban all knives? It seems like parents ignoring warning labels on an item not marketed towards children is the main issue (I wouldn't necessarily say the magnets were less dangerous either).

The danger from knives is obvious to most children, and a cut probably isn't going to seriously injure them. Knives are not marketed as toys, and have a use other than being played with. If a child is injured by a knife, you will know it quickly, and understand the extent of the problem. Half of the people in this thread are comparing it to swallowing a penny, which is so harmless that you could make it a hobby.

This is not health & safety gone mad.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being deceptive. How many deaths per bicycle, per battery, and per bottle ?

You're quite right I am being somewhat deceptive to make a point. However to my knowledge there are no deaths related to Buckyballs, and the rate of ingestion is something like 0.0000048%.

Well, lets say serious injuries requiring emergency surgery, then - and lets find the actual statistics.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other things marketed as playful or safe for kids in the US; - Bicycles (Over 500 deaths a year) - Battery powered toys (Roughly 2500 battery ingestions a year, Roughly 2% Fatality Rate) - Bottles, Pacifiers etc. (2200 ER Injuries per year)

You're being deceptive. How many deaths per bicycle, per battery, and per bottle ?

That isn't actually deceptive though, if the question is of how the government should be spending its time and getting involved with our business. If buckyballs are a relatively rare novelty toy with a clear warning label but a minuscule number of injury cases nonetheless, while a number of other products are more popular and are hurting more kids, then why should the government screw around with buckyballs at all? Aren't there better places they could be intervening?

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#56

I can't believe they waited this long. I'd be surprised if a lot of adults haven't swallowed these, too. Everybody knows that BBs and pennies pass easily, so why wouldn't you think that about magnets? It isn't like the warnings are printed on every ball, and there's nothing intuitive about their danger. Tiny, strong BB magnets can have no place in a house that ever has kids in it. It's not safe to have them in or on…

They're also both an educational and creative toy that can introduce kids to the counterintuitive ways that magnets interact, while teaching them to build things within unusual constraints. Yes, they are dangerous if swallowed, just like a lot of other things that we have around our houses all the time. Keep them out of reach of young children, sure, but this is a tiny risk that has been blown out of proportion by th…

Magformers are a safe and interesting magnetic toy that offers that magnet magic you mention. I think the point is that some designs are inherently unsafe. They need to go back to the drawing board.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#57
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also both an educational and creative toy that can introduce kids to the counterintuitive ways that magnets interact, while teaching them to build things within unusual constraints. Yes, they are dangerous if swallowed, just like a lot of other things that we have around our houses all the time. Keep them out of reach of young children, sure, but this is a tiny risk that has been blown out of proportion by th…

Magformers are a safe and interesting magnetic toy that offers that magnet magic you mention. I think the point is that some designs are inherently unsafe. They need to go back to the drawing board.

But it's marginally unsafe, and the risk is clearly labeled. As long as people are being informed of the moderate danger (and they are), it is nuts for the government to come in and try to take these off the market. The world is full of dangerous crap, and if you step back and try to keep a little perspective, this desk toy shouldn't even show up on your radar.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're quite right I am being somewhat deceptive to make a point. However to my knowledge there are no deaths related to Buckyballs, and the rate of ingestion is something like 0.0000048%.

Well, lets say serious injuries requiring emergency surgery, then - and lets find the actual statistics.

[deleted]

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#59
If parents don't understand why a small magnetic ball bearing would be bad for their children to play with, then they're --- hate to be rude --- stupid. And their stupidity should not be used to punish private companies who make a perfectly safe product when used correctly by its intended audience.

They already have warning label, why isn't that enough?

With the economy hurting like it is, I can't figure out why the US government would be doing something as stupid as this. They're threatening the livelihood of a private business.

It just makes no sense to me. I miss personal accountability and responsibility.

Re: Feds file suit against Buckyballs, retailers ban product

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're quite right I am being somewhat deceptive to make a point. However to my knowledge there are no deaths related to Buckyballs, and the rate of ingestion is something like 0.0000048%.

Well, lets say serious injuries requiring emergency surgery, then - and lets find the actual statistics.

There is only 1 listed victim for Buckyball injury requiring surgery.

So 1 surgery for 2.5million Buckyball products sold thus far. I'm gonna take a gamble and say the rate for bicycles is going to be worse than that.

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