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Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

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Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#51

Post by _yb2s »

mattkrause wrote: post #43
TZubiri wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also they simultaneously hold the ownership rights as well as equivalent owenrship liabilities, so they own shit squat in net terms (excpet maybe their management fees).

It’s even weirder than that! Vanguard has an odd corporate structure where it’s owned by the funds that it manages, so it’s effectively a co-op owned by its customers.

I don’t understand why customer owned co-ops aren’t ubiquitous. Vanguard is amazing- low fees, and great services- they beat all of the competition. I had to call their support line today and it was the most professional customer service I’ve ever experienced.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#52

Post by fny »

rat87 wrote: post #20
globalnode wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking of trying Fedora (currently using Debian) and this comment made me look up who owns red-hat. ibm now owns red-hat, and apparently vanguard owns a huge chunk of ibm. I wonder how much influence any of the sponsors have over what goes into the os and what direction it takes.

Vanguard "owns" a huge chunk of everything. Vanguard runs index funds, most peoples retirements are vanguard buying small shares of an index fund representing all the big companies on the stock exchange

Vanguard is everyone’s retirement account. Everytime someone buys their S&P 500 ETF, they go buy stocks.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#53

Post by lrvick »

globalnode wrote: post #19
ysofunny wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i mean... it's IBM so what did we really expect?

I was thinking of trying Fedora (currently using Debian) and this comment made me look up who owns red-hat. ibm now owns red-hat, and apparently vanguard owns a huge chunk of ibm. I wonder how much influence any of the sponsors have over what goes into the os and what direction it takes.

Fedora is centrally built/signed and not part of the reproducible builds project. It should not be used for any systems you need to be able to trust.

You are much better off sticking with Debian anyway, or looking at Guix for a significant improvement.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#56

Post by lrvick »

I largely agree with these points, however it is an awkward position coming from Red Hat which is the best funded Linux distribution there is, and -still- not part of the reproducible builds project or investing in full source bootstrapping which means no one can exactly reproduce their published artifacts from source or prove they were not tampered with. (Same with Fedora)

Glass houses.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#57

Post by dralley »

lrvick wrote: post #56

I largely agree with these points, however it is an awkward position coming from Red Hat which is the best funded Linux distribution there is, and -still- not part of the reproducible builds project or investing in full source bootstrapping which means no one can exactly reproduce their published artifacts from source or prove they were not tampered with. (Same with Fedora) Glass houses.

> (Same with Fedora)

??

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/reproducible-builds/

https://pagure.io/fedora-reproducible-builds/project/issues

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/41/ChangeSet#Reprodu...

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#58

Post by [deleted] »

lrvick wrote: post #56

I largely agree with these points, however it is an awkward position coming from Red Hat which is the best funded Linux distribution there is, and -still- not part of the reproducible builds project or investing in full source bootstrapping which means no one can exactly reproduce their published artifacts from source or prove they were not tampered with. (Same with Fedora) Glass houses.

[deleted]

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#59

Post by carlwgeorge »

thrqka wrote: post #4

> We believe that these concepts can have the same impact on artificial intelligence Where the concept is the exploitation of thousands of volunteers while repackaging their work. (I know that RedHat sponsors some people, sometimes to the detriment of projects, but a lot of it is not sponsored, especially when RedHat established itself.)

Red Hat pays more people to work on open source than any other company I'm aware of. I am one of these people. I challenge you to find a single open source project included in a Red Hat product that doesn't contain contributions from Red Hat employees. Maybe a few exist, but the vast majority include Red Hat contributions, because we contribute all over the open source ecosystem.

Re: Open source AI: Red Hat's point-of-view

#60

Post by echelon »

tbrownaw wrote: post #26
echelon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TL;DR - Red Hat views the minimum criteria for open source AI as open source-licensed model weights combined with open source software components. That's not open source! I'm going to call this "Wizard of Ozzing". You give away the spectacle of magic tricks, but none of the science and machinery to do it yourself. You're still hiding it all behind fake virtue signalling. Open source in AI is open weights, open trai…

You have the preferred form for making modifications, and the relevant permissions to now get in trouble for it. If you actually go look at the open source or few software definitions, that's what they're about - being able to make modifications. Just like an open source software project doesn't need a public record of the rationale for all architectural decisions in order to qualify.

Define these terms:

- Pretrain

- Fine tune

- Catastrophic forgetting

- Learning rate

- Adapter layer

If you understand these terms, then you understand why "open weights" are not the same as "open source".

"Open weights" are obfuscated and minified freeware.

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