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The Cantonese Scrolls – A Cantonese language learning mental RPG

cantoscrolls.com

51–56 of 56 posts

Re: The Cantonese Scrolls – A Cantonese language learning mental RPG

#51

Just looking at the game, I'm guessing you need to already have some knowledge of Cantonese writing?

Not necessarily, the way I see it you can just jump in and start learning and practicing. Now is there a correct way to write the strokes, technically yes there is (which fun fact, Chinese writing is designed for right handed people. My wife is a native speaker from Hong Kong but she's a lefty, so she adjusted all stroke writing from the left handed perspective ;D), however, I would say writing the strokes properly when the goal is to learn how to read/speak/hear Cantonese is the main goal is alright. Will you have to unlearn bad habits or re-train yourself to write the strokes properly? Yes, this may be a possibility. Of course you could just research how to write the strokes from the beginning.

The Cantonese Scrolls is a project to document and teach the language, and record the characters for its direct written form. It doesn't contain every single aspect or tool for language learning, but the core material to preserve the language, let's say 250 years later when someone unearths it. This is also why I called it a scroll, since I view it as a sort of digital ancient document written on parchment paper haha.

Re: The Cantonese Scrolls – A Cantonese language learning mental RPG

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I'm not saying the word 申請 itself isn't used in normal speech, but more that the pronunciation of 請 in normal speech would sound more like an e. So I would rather teach people the normal way people would pronounce words and not the literary form, since as I said before, I also do want to stay away from Standard Chinese as much as possible and teach Written Cantonese. It will take me some time to continue…

As a native speaker I assure you that 請 is pronounced differently in context, and that both readings are perfectly Cantonese. For a more clear example, see 平: 大平賣 ("vernacular" reading; peng4) (lit. big cheap sale; i.e. sale) vs 平面 ("literary" reading; ping4) (lit. flat surface; i.e. surface). peng4 is the "vernacular" reading but used exclusively for meaning cheap. ping4 is "literary" but used everywhere else. "vern…

I'm happy to hear that both can be used, normally I always have heard more of the "e" shift in a relatively consistent way. I normally say "大減價" for a big sale, but I understand your point was more about showing a demonstration where the "i" may be used. Although I would say that it really depends on the speaker and how they feel. I would most likely use the "e" shift consistently and be perfectly understood.

Re: The Cantonese Scrolls – A Cantonese language learning mental RPG

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a native speaker I assure you that 請 is pronounced differently in context, and that both readings are perfectly Cantonese. For a more clear example, see 平: 大平賣 ("vernacular" reading; peng4) (lit. big cheap sale; i.e. sale) vs 平面 ("literary" reading; ping4) (lit. flat surface; i.e. surface). peng4 is the "vernacular" reading but used exclusively for meaning cheap. ping4 is "literary" but used everywhere else. "vern…

I'm happy to hear that both can be used, normally I always have heard more of the "e" shift in a relatively consistent way. I normally say "大減價" for a big sale, but I understand your point was more about showing a demonstration where the "i" may be used. Although I would say that it really depends on the speaker and how they feel. I would most likely use the "e" shift consistently and be perfectly understood.

The example is meant to demonstrate that whether I say 平 as ping or peng changes the meaning of the sentence. It does not depend on how I feel like it.

Another example: I buy some raisins, and the lady gives me some. I say: 咁多! If I pronounce "gam3do1", I say "That's so much!". If I pronounce "gam3doe1", I say "That's so little!".

(Yes, contrived. Almost always the former is used. But both can be.)

Re: The Cantonese Scrolls – A Cantonese language learning mental RPG

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to hear that both can be used, normally I always have heard more of the "e" shift in a relatively consistent way. I normally say "大減價" for a big sale, but I understand your point was more about showing a demonstration where the "i" may be used. Although I would say that it really depends on the speaker and how they feel. I would most likely use the "e" shift consistently and be perfectly understood.

The example is meant to demonstrate that whether I say 平 as ping or peng changes the meaning of the sentence. It does not depend on how I feel like it. Another example: I buy some raisins, and the lady gives me some. I say: 咁多! If I pronounce "gam3do1", I say "That's so much!". If I pronounce "gam3doe1", I say "That's so little!". (Yes, contrived. Almost always the former is used. But both can be.)

I definitely read that as "gam3 do1". I never heard "doe1" for this character, there is always something more to learn ;).

Re: The Cantonese Scrolls – A Cantonese language learning mental RPG

#55
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is amazing! Consider potentially adding support for WebSpeech api to make it easier. Something like const voice = speechSynthesis.getVoices().filter(e => e.lang==='zh-HK').at(-1) const utterance = new SpeechSynthesisUtterance('你好') utterance.voice = voice speechSynthesis.speak(utterance)

Thanks for the suggestion. Take a look at my other reply above, but The Cantonese Scrolls is a project that needs to be able to run offline, directly in your web browser, with no network calls. I allow everyone to download the entire project and self study offline or self host it if they want. This serves as both a backup mechanism, and a defense mechanism against any potential government censorship by countries that…

It's your project, I just wanted to point out that the code snippet the GP posted works offline, subject to the user having the voices installed. My `speechSynthesis.getVoices().filter(e => e.lang==='zh-HK')` returned nothing but it still tried to speak something anyway, even with the networking turned off on my computer

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Speech_...

Re: The Cantonese Scrolls – A Cantonese language learning mental RPG

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my 10 years in HK, including months worth of weekly language classes, “n” and “l” were treated utterly interchangeably. Not to say that it’s not worth the effort in some contexts to make a distinction, but if the aim is to get a functional understanding of the language the “lazy” version is useful.

A counterexample for you: 聶 nip6, never lip6. 獵 lip6, never nip6. 焫 naat3, "lazily" laat3. 辣 laat6, never naat6. (Yes, almost everywhere interchangeable)

Touché
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