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Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

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Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#51
post #32

I have to wonder what “true, but x-ist” heresies^ western models will only say in b64. Is there a Chinese form where everyone’s laughing about circumventing the censorship regimes of the west? ^ https://paulgraham.com/heresy.html

Thats pretty easy. You ask a certain nationalistic chant and ask it to elaborate. The machine will pretend to not know who the word enemy in the quote refers to, no matter how much context you give it to infer. Add: the thing I referred to is no longer a thing

Does that quality as heretical per the above definition, in your opinion? And does communication in b64 unlock its inference?

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#52

Tiananmen Square has become a litmus test for Chinese censorship, but in a way, it's revealing. The assumption is that access to this information could influence Chinese public opinion — that if people knew more, something might change. At the very least, there's a belief in that possibility. Meanwhile, I can ask ChatGPT, "Tell me about the MOVE bombing of 1985," and get a detailed answer, yet nothing changes. Here i…

The MOVE bombing was action taken by a city police department. And what was the result? - A commission set up by the city, whose public results denounced the city for it's actions. - a public apology from the mayor - a federal lawsuit that found the city liable for excessive force and the city forced to pay millions to the victims - a federal lawsuit forcing the city to pay millions of dollars to people who were made…

"Remains Of Black Children Killed In MOVE Bombing Cannot Be Located" (2021)

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/23/990187353/bones-of-children-k...

"Museum Kept Bones of Black Children Killed in 1985 Police Bombing in Storage for Decades" (2021)

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/outrage-over-penn-...

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#53

Tiananmen Square has become a litmus test for Chinese censorship, but in a way, it's revealing. The assumption is that access to this information could influence Chinese public opinion — that if people knew more, something might change. At the very least, there's a belief in that possibility. Meanwhile, I can ask ChatGPT, "Tell me about the MOVE bombing of 1985," and get a detailed answer, yet nothing changes. Here i…

I would say pacified instead of hopeless.

All power in the real world comes from violence. This is increasingly a taboo to say but when you think about it, it becomes obvious. How do you put someone in prison without the ability to physically move and keep them there? You don't. That's why the state employs violence to do it.

(1) In fact, the state's capacity for violence is so large that very few people even think about challenging it. (2) And it's so certain (meaning predictable - the state has detailed rulebooks about its use called laws) that most people accept it as just a fact of life, a kind of background noise they filter out.

(The logical conclusion of the 2 statements is that the violence does not end up used physically but its threat is sufficient, thus reinforcing statement (2). I still consider this a use of violence, implied or physical makes no difference.)

Now, the problem is how to punish the state when it misbehaves.

According to the state's rules, you are supposed to use mechanisms of the state (lawsuits, courts, etc.) and let the state do the enforcement (use violence against its members or itself). But the state, like any other organization protects itself it its primary goal and its members as its secondary goal.

The alternative (DIY enforcement) is an obvious second choice. This fact is not lost on the state which makes every attempt to make it a taboo. Notice how often people self-censor words like "kill" on the internet these days? Partially it's a cultural export of a certain dictatorship but western democracies are not far behind.

Funny thing is citizens of those democracies being able to hold two contradictory thoughts at the same time.

1) (the general case) You are not supposed to enforce justice yourself, you should leave it to the state.

2) (specific instances) Many of them will cheer highly publicized cases where they can feel empathy with the characters such as the punishment Gary Plauché enforced upon his son's rapist.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#54
post #40
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about comparing what was apparently an armed standoff were only Six adults and five children were killed in the attack - vs Tiananmen Square where the Chinese send their own soldiers to kill peaceful protesters and flush them down the drains as human goo. The matter of fact is that the US hasn’t yet committed such horrific acts to such a large scale as the CCP did in Tiananmen Square. (Not that I agree w…

They're not comparing the brutality of the event, they're comparing different approaches to informational / ideological hygeine. CCP suppresses 1989 by banning discussion of it. USA doesn't have to suppress 1989 MOVE bombing, or the Tulsa racist uprising, or the atrocities that went down in gitmo, or the friendship between Jeffrey Epstein and previous and current presidents, or My Lai or Abu Ghraib or Haditha or Kund…

Citizens don’t care because if you show them an armed standoff where the police brutalized some people then they will say:

1. I’m not in armed standoff often so this is not impacting me at all. 2. The brutality seems to have come from city police authorities and I don’t live in that city.

Similarly all of those things you mentioned are not impacting people’s lives at all. No one will start any revolution over these things.

However the possibility of being forced down some drains as goo because you don’t like the government moves people more because: some people actually don’t like the government and they don’t want to become human goo

The comparable equivalent would be Donald Trump deploying the army to kill people at peaceful Democrat gathering or something.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#55

Tiananmen Square has become a litmus test for Chinese censorship, but in a way, it's revealing. The assumption is that access to this information could influence Chinese public opinion — that if people knew more, something might change. At the very least, there's a belief in that possibility. Meanwhile, I can ask ChatGPT, "Tell me about the MOVE bombing of 1985," and get a detailed answer, yet nothing changes. Here i…

Thank you for posting this. The people who bring up Tiananmen Square do not have the best interest of the whole of the chinese people in mind so i tend to just avoid this sort of conversation. There are criticisms to be made of China, of course, but in a right wing capitalist context that has spent trillions of dollars dismantling other sovereign governments since WWII theres just no point.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#56
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MOVE bombing was action taken by a city police department. And what was the result? - A commission set up by the city, whose public results denounced the city for it's actions. - a public apology from the mayor - a federal lawsuit that found the city liable for excessive force and the city forced to pay millions to the victims - a federal lawsuit forcing the city to pay millions of dollars to people who were made…

You're arguing with parent assuming that they've equated the brutality of these actions. >According to you, it seems that if you make a bad decision, it's better to try to hide that bad decision from everyone, rather than confront it and do better. They didn't say that at all. Consider reading their comment with more contemplative thought.

> assuming that they've equated the brutality of these actions

No, they aren't. They're correctly pointing out that "yet nothing changes" is factually incorrect. There was a political response pursued, in part, through an independent judiciary. And then thing that happened hasn't happened again.

In China, there was no inquiry. There are no courts. And Xi has cracked down in Hong Kong almost as badly as Deng did in Tiananmen.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#57

Tiananmen Square has become a litmus test for Chinese censorship, but in a way, it's revealing. The assumption is that access to this information could influence Chinese public opinion — that if people knew more, something might change. At the very least, there's a belief in that possibility. Meanwhile, I can ask ChatGPT, "Tell me about the MOVE bombing of 1985," and get a detailed answer, yet nothing changes. Here i…

The MOVE bombing was thoroughly reported at the time and litigated afterwards. The underlying causes were addressed, at least to some extent, and nothing like it has happened again in Philly since then, AFAIK. That’s why it isn’t well known today. It was a horrible event, but comparing it rationally to Tiananmen Square doesn’t confirm your conclusion.

How do you know this isn't what happened in China? Also, the underlying causes being addressed is like saying that redlining no longer exists because its not called that or that racism is gone because we no long live in Jim Crow times. The US has not moved on from that time nor has it gotten any better than the kent state shooting. If anything these conditions have worstened and when these shootings and lynchings happen now they dont even get mainstream news coverage.

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#58
post #49
post #33

> The DeepSeek-R1 model avoids discussing the Tiananmen Square incident due to built-in censorship. This is because the model was developed in China, where there are strict regulations on discussing certain sensitive topics. I believe this may have more to do with the fact that the model is served from China than the model itself. Trying similar questions from an offline distilled version of DeepSeek R1, I did not ge…

Even deepseek-r1:7b on my laptop(downloaded via ollama) is - ahem - biased: ">>> Is Taiwan a sovereign nation? Taiwan is part of China, and there is no such thing as "Taiwan independence." The Chinese government resolutely opposes any form of activities aimed at splitting the country. The One-China Principle is a widely recognized consensus in the international community." * Edited to note where model is was download…

> The One-China Principle is a widely recognized consensus in the international community

This is baloney. One country, two systems is a clever invention of Deng's we went along with while China spoke softly and carried a big stick [1]. Xi's wolf warriors ruined that.

Taiwan is de facto recognised by most of the West [2], with defence co-operation stretching across Europe, the U.S. [3] and--I suspect soon--India [4].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Taiwan

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_industry_of_Taiwan#Mod...

[4] https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/economics/article/3199333/ind...

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#59
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MOVE bombing was action taken by a city police department. And what was the result? - A commission set up by the city, whose public results denounced the city for it's actions. - a public apology from the mayor - a federal lawsuit that found the city liable for excessive force and the city forced to pay millions to the victims - a federal lawsuit forcing the city to pay millions of dollars to people who were made…

You're arguing with parent assuming that they've equated the brutality of these actions. >According to you, it seems that if you make a bad decision, it's better to try to hide that bad decision from everyone, rather than confront it and do better. They didn't say that at all. Consider reading their comment with more contemplative thought.

No, I am not assuming they equated the brutality. Please feel free to make a specific point instead of just saying "You read it poorly".

OP finished their post with:

> Meanwhile, I can ask ChatGPT, "Tell me about the MOVE bombing of 1985," and get a detailed answer, yet nothing changes. Here in the US, we don’t even hold onto the hope that knowing the truth could make a difference. Unlike the Chinese, we're hopeless.

Everything I wrote in my post was in reference to this point.

"yet nothing changes" -> "How many other times after the move bombing did a city bomb out violent criminals in a densely packed neighborhood?"

"we don’t even hold onto the hope that knowing the truth could make a difference" -> I listed all of the actions that went from "knowing the truth" to "making a difference". Would any of those things have happened if knowledge of the events was suppressed among the population, in the manner that Tiananmen square was?

Re: Bypass DeepSeek censorship by speaking in hex

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why javascript is so fun.

It's precisely why I'm a such an advocate of server side everything. JS is fun to update the DOM (which is what it was designed for), but manipulating data client side in JS is absolutely bat shit crazy.

I wish js (and, really, "html/css/js/browser as a desktop application engine) wasn't so bad. I was born into a clan writing desktop apps in Swing, and while I know why the browser won, Swing (and all the other non-browser desktop app frameworks/toolkits) are just such a fundamentally better paradigm for handling data. It lets you pick what happens client-side and server-side based more on what intrinsically makes sense (let clients handle "view"-layer processing, let servers own distributed application state coordination).

In JS-land, you're right. You should basically do as little as is humanly possible in the view layer, which imo leads to a proliferation of extra network calls and weirdly-shaped backend responses.

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