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Go at SoundCloud

backstage.soundcloud.com

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Re: Go at SoundCloud

#51

Post by jongraehl »

AnswerAndForget wrote: post #42
redbad wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it's no better than C Multiple return values are pretty clearly better than C. The comma-OK or comma-err idiom is verbose, but powerful and unambiguous.

A well known and tested approach, sum types (tagged unions), would have been way better, but it was cast aside because the designers were apparently unaware of the improvements to union types made since C's inception: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/w1ig0/things_i_...

There is no reason for any new language to lack tagged union types. It disturbs me that Brian Cox rejects a simple, proven language feature that he does not even understand, even though it would take all of 2 minutes of searching/reading to understand. I'm sure he spent at least that long composing the replies in that thread, never moving past the ego-threat of "will Go ever have X?" to honestly evaluate the question.

Re: Go at SoundCloud

#52

Post by weaksauce »

Lewisham wrote: post #47
mseebach wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is roughly that it is, in fact, not very useful, while opening up a vast array of misuses - especially in the domain of being all too clever. What does "+" mean on a list and an object? Add, probably. But what if it's two lists? Union? Or add the second list as the last element to the first? Named functions "add" and "union" aren't any less readable and loads more descriptive. The only situation you posi…

Of course, Go itself is completely unsearchable, so you always have to search for Golang, which means that thee mut be hundreds of pages that get missed.

I would think that the search algorithms are smart enough to conflate references to go in an article about programming with golang as a search query. I am not a google engineer but I do know that they have very good "did you mean" analysis on search queries.

Re: Go at SoundCloud

#54

Post by shawnps »

fjellfras wrote: post #29

What sort of development environment are others here using for go (if using it at all, of course) ? I've had reasonably good experience with the go-mode in emacs.

I'm using vim with the vim plugins that come in go/misc/vim. I use :Import and :Drop for adding and removing imports, and :Fmt to run gofmt in vim. I also have a git pre-commit hook that runs gofmt.

Re: Go at SoundCloud

#56

Post by mseepgood »

tomp wrote: post #37
Symmetry wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It got out of hand, but it's still a rather nice paradigm if you're actually simulating a system or designing a GUI. Teaching it as the One True Paradigm is certainly bad, but it certainly has its uses.

> designing a GUI Not really. HTML/CSS/JavaScript combination is not really OO, but works really really well. In general, I think that any "programming language" for GUI is a fail - we need to develop a declarative approach to GUI (like HTML/CSS, but with more features (e.g. effects) and more emphasis on Application Development (e.g. it's still really hard to create a photoshop-like interface in HTML), less on text p…

Who told you that JavaScript was "not really OO"?

Re: Go at SoundCloud

#57

Post by luriel »

Lewisham wrote: post #45
goostavos wrote: post #39

I'm still a bit of a novice, could someone elaborate on what he means by operator overloading being "problem creating?" I thought that was one of the main, 'core' concepts of OOP. Inheritance, and polymorphism. How would you make something like a GUI without being able to specialize classes by overriding certain methods? Have I misunderstood his point?

His point is that, if you aren't familiar with the code, operator overloading can be difficult to read. It gives objects the appearance of being native types, and it is sometimes not entirely clear what the result of the overload might be. What does "dog + cat" equal? In an extreme example, if you are crazy enough, it might make sense to have animal + animal = baby animal. You need to temper that example down to some…

> As far as I can see, whenever the Go team encountered a language feature that could possibly be abused, they always deferred to leaving it out.

All features can be abused.

The Go philosophy is more to leave out features that obscure the meaning and understanding of code (what is also known as "magic").

Also part of the Go philosophy is to not include any feature unless it is clear that its benefits are greater than its costs, and which might interact in unpredictable ways with other existing features.

In other words, the default is to leave things out, rather than to include them, the opposite of a kitchen sink approach.

Re: Go at SoundCloud

#58

Post by goostavos »

Lewisham wrote: post #45
goostavos wrote: post #39

I'm still a bit of a novice, could someone elaborate on what he means by operator overloading being "problem creating?" I thought that was one of the main, 'core' concepts of OOP. Inheritance, and polymorphism. How would you make something like a GUI without being able to specialize classes by overriding certain methods? Have I misunderstood his point?

His point is that, if you aren't familiar with the code, operator overloading can be difficult to read. It gives objects the appearance of being native types, and it is sometimes not entirely clear what the result of the overload might be. What does "dog + cat" equal? In an extreme example, if you are crazy enough, it might make sense to have animal + animal = baby animal. You need to temper that example down to some…

Ah, that makes sense. Really good explanation. Thanks!

Re: Go at SoundCloud

#59

Post by gurkendoktor »

paraboul wrote: post #44
goostavos wrote: post #39

I'm still a bit of a novice, could someone elaborate on what he means by operator overloading being "problem creating?" I thought that was one of the main, 'core' concepts of OOP. Inheritance, and polymorphism. How would you make something like a GUI without being able to specialize classes by overriding certain methods? Have I misunderstood his point?

Opertor overloading is really horrible. By reading the code "foo + bar" you can't know what is really doing internally. He is talking about operator (+-*=[]&) overloading. Not method overloading.

And how do you know what add(foo, bar) does internally?

Re: Go at SoundCloud

#60

Post by jff »

fjellfras wrote: post #29

What sort of development environment are others here using for go (if using it at all, of course) ? I've had reasonably good experience with the go-mode in emacs.

I use Acme, simply because it's got good buffer management and a useful editing language. I also used go-mode about a year ago, before I got sick of emacs.
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