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To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

economist.com

51–60 of 106 posts

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#51
post #28

An idea that looks good on paper but can be disastrous in reality. Interconnected systems increase exposure to cyber threats.

and small systems with no decentralized redundancy can fail catastrophically, what's your point? We have have far more recent examples of the former rather than your hypothetical musings.

Don't be a IYI, learn something: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#52
post #3

Ultra High Voltage transmission lines are a key component to load balancing the grid. Currently (no pun intended...) very expensive because so few countries do it (China (of course), then I think only Brazil?) but it means that power surges from renewables can be channeled to places which need to use it, without having to try and put the energy into storage. If team humanity can find the maturity to connect grids aro…

Yes, Brazil has some UHV lines. AFAIK, the US has one, Europe has a few, not only inside the EU.

Long distance power grids are only useful if you have huge generators localized away from the power consumers. So, mostly places with hydroelectric generators have them. It was never a matter of "maturity" or politics.

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#53
post #9
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe uses them to transfer energy in states and between states. Mostly with AC but there are some DC connections.

Ultra-High Voltage seems to mean over 500kV. AC lines of this voltage in Europe are only in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. https://www.entsoe.eu/data/map/ — there's a legend if you click the button, but navy is > 500kV AC, and magenta is DC.

[deleted]

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#54

An idea that looks good on paper but can be disastrous in reality. Interconnected systems increase exposure to cyber threats.

We already have hundreds of millions of people on connected electricity grids. Loss of a few interconnections would not lead to catastrophic failure of the whole system.

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#55
post #41

Beware of talk about benefits without mention of drawbacks. Connecting grids could significantly increase the fragility of the system resulting in higher risk of large-scale power outages. Some of you might have experienced the 2003 blackout in northeast North American ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003 ), which luckily happened in the summer. Tail risks should not be swept under the rug. Even…

I remember we were at work and the power flickered and all the UPS's started beeping for about 10 seconds. Then it went back to normal. Then about 30 minutes later people looked at the news and saw a massive blackout. We were hundreds of miles away and that's all we felt but I had a relative tell me about walking a few miles home because the subways were down and the traffic lights not working made it even crazier.

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#56
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's half a dozen lines over 500kV DC in operation and as many again under development and construction

I heard one of the problems is that since countries want to run the lines submerged, which is too expensive and/or challenging for other reasons (fields,...) for high voltage DC.

The ones in europe are submarine. AC has its own challenges under the sea.

This one for example at 600kV and 2.2GW

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_HVDC_Link

There are of course issues with all undersea cables (AC or DC) in today's climate with cable cuts being so frequent. I wonder if it's easier to locate AC cables

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#57

Time and time again, from one industry to another, the bottleneck in progress remains human, or political, or social organization (whatever you wish to call it). No matter our technological progress since the Industrial Revolution this failure point appears to persist. As my gardening instructor would tell our class: it’s not the features themselves that matter, but the relationships between features that define the…

It can be even worse. When people are too deep into a particular technique they lose track of what the system needs. I've seen 500M intranet applications who were slower that handwriting on preprinted paper templates (which means network failures would increase productivity overall).

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#59
post #29
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, there is no "team humanity", except in one losing game. If there was team humanity - and we weren't still focused on "us" vs "them" and throwing feces at each other across imaginary geographical, religious and race borders - I'm confident we could solve the climate problem completely in 5-10 years. Not to mention what else (famine, diseases...), with motivation other than short-term profit...

> Unfortunately, there is no "team humanity", except in one losing game Team Humanity is frequently identified as the political left. It shouldn’t be too hard to coordinate internationally.

Every team thinks they are team humanity.

Re: To make electricity cheaper and greener, connect the world's grids

#60
post #17

Extend the European synchronised grid to Northern Africa. Then you can think about deploying solar on a massive scale to parts of the Sahara.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xlinks_Morocco%E2%80%93UK_Powe... tl;dr this is already proposed

Indeed some such projects have been. I could not find sufficiently informative links expeditiously. But there is for example DESERTEC.
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