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We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

linuxserver.io

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Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#51

Post by planb »

TZubiri wrote: post #7
ricardbejarano wrote: post #2

Run your own registry.

Or run no registry. Here's a port from a Dockerfile to just a vm: FROM Debian CMD apt-get install thing CMD curl blabla/install.sh Pretty much converts to: aws-cli ec2 launch-instance ssh user@server apt-get install thing ssh user@server curl blabla/install.sh In general, everytime you dispense of a high level abstraction, the solution is not to replicate the high level abstraction, but to build directly at a lower l…

We're not talking about Dockerfiles here, but about images from a registry.

How many times faster and more reproducible is "docker run myimage:1.0.0" compared to your solution?

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#52

Post by 8organicbits »

robertlagrant wrote: post #34
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

> My suggestion is therefore that we need independent solutions, that are fully funded as a charity, and stop relying on freemium services from corporations that fundamentally don't care about the public good. We had that already, but none of them invented Docker. > If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? They seem happy to pay; they were complaining (validly) about the…

> none of them invented Docker

I think that depends on what you mean by docker. Lots of similar things existed before, just less formalized and less centralized.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#53

Post by planb »

TZubiri wrote: post #48
sherburt3 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at how much shorter and nicer the docker example is compared to the VM example. Also first example runs locally on any computer with docker or podman or whatever installed, second example exclusively runs on AWS.

"Just look at how much shorter and nicer the docker example is compared to the VM example." Is this trolling? Who gives a shit? It's 3 lines that will be buried deep in the stack. You can even do it manually Gasp . and write the steps with screenshots in a word document or an email. "lso first example runs locally on any computer with docker or podman or whatever installed, second example exclusively runs on AWS." So…

Really you seem to be the one who's trolling here, or you do not understand why people use containers because you don't have their use case.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#54

Post by kristianc »

sealeck wrote: post #11
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

This is really a question of framing. The other way you can look at it is: Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products, and developing software that makes Docker more useful. As someone who sells Docker services, you benefit from a greater market size. It's like how WordPress have benefitted from people authoring plugins – even though wordpress.org has hosted them for "free", this has been good comme…

> It's like how WordPress have benefitted from people authoring plugins – even though wordpress.org has hosted them for "free", this has been good commercial sense as it allows them to sell more WordPress.com to people.

With seemingly similar rent-seeking behaviour when Automattic decide they’ve had enough and want to put a toll on that road…

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#55

Post by TZubiri »

saagarjha wrote: post #40
TZubiri wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products," It takes a whole lot of mental gymnastics to argue that a provider of free services is actually the one benefitting from that interaction, and not the other way around. Go ahead and build your systems on free dependencies like WordPress and Debian, but just get real and don't pretend that you are better than professionals that build business relationship…

I mean, paying for your software dependencies doesn’t automatically make things any better.

It's wild that "people should pay for software" is a controversial statement amongst software developers.

If software developer, don't pay for the software you rely on. Then non technical users who appreciate software even less would pay for software with much less frequency and for much lower prices when they do!

It is us as developers that need to first institutionalize the idea that software is paid, otherwise we have little hope to get paid for our efforts.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#56

Post by TZubiri »

Kovah wrote: post #39

I'm absolutely stunned by all the negative comments in here bashing the Linuxserver project. "Run your own registry", "you get everything for free be grateful", and so on. What the hell is wrong with you? They are a couple of guys trying to make software more accessible to thousands of people. Indeed it's a large project and one may question if they should get _everything_ for free. But that's not the point of this a…

"absolutely horrendous behaviour"

If the phrase absolutely horrendous behaviour maps to this triviality instead of actual atrocities, you have gotten too deep and lost context.

I don't want to discredit any small issues by putting them into global perspectives, but there's several wars as we speak, maybe just tone down your alarm levels if you want to be taken seriously.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#57

Post by p_ing »

TZubiri wrote: post #33
sealeck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really a question of framing. The other way you can look at it is: Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products, and developing software that makes Docker more useful. As someone who sells Docker services, you benefit from a greater market size. It's like how WordPress have benefitted from people authoring plugins – even though wordpress.org has hosted them for "free", this has been good comme…

"Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products," It takes a whole lot of mental gymnastics to argue that a provider of free services is actually the one benefitting from that interaction, and not the other way around. Go ahead and build your systems on free dependencies like WordPress and Debian, but just get real and don't pretend that you are better than professionals that build business relationship…

Docker was in serious financial trouble in 2019 after the community had been benefiting from it's products for years by that point.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#58

Post by concerndc1tizen »

bayindirh wrote: post #41
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

You're framing this wrong. They don't whine because they didn't get DSOS status this year. They are confused because they didn't get an answer . They want communication, not free cookies.

> we were preparing for our annual DSOS renewal. This process is abysmal, there's no way to apply to roll over membership, or even a renewal process per se, you have to reapply from scratch every year using the same badly-designed form ...

It sounds more to me like those who run DockerHub aren't that interested in giving away free service.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#59

Post by undecisive »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

Here's a tiny bit of missing context.

This blog is for LinuxServer.io, who build repositories that produce free docker images, for free, paid for by donations, for a bunch of open source software. By the looks of things, they are literally a charity.

Conversely, their complaint is not "aren't docker rubbish? Let's mob 'em" - it's "heads up, something seems to be wrong and docker are not responding to anything, chances are there's trouble brewing - we're gonna start looking around and if you're depending on this, you should too"

I would say calling "the open source community" a "parasite" because they're using free services from companies that have benefited greatly and earned a lot of money from things given freely by the open source community seems weird.

Seems like a lot of people on here very concerned about those poor struggling corporations, and their exploitation by those evil open source charities. Feels like an evil political wind is blowing, wonder where that's coming from?

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#60

Post by concerndc1tizen »

thespad wrote: post #46
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

We do use other providers, but as stated Docker Hub is the defacto standard so it would be counterproductive for us to abandon it entirely. We don't "want free stuff", we pay for docker hub for several accounts, but they offer and promote an Open Source program that we have been part of, that simply does not function properly, and that is our complaint. Your attitude of "well it's free so it's fine if it's shit, just…

I don't agree that you can speak on behalf of "everyone".
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