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Proof of location for online polls

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Re: Proof of location for online polls

#51

Post by xethos »

jampekka wrote: post #36
mac3n wrote: post #14

having worked on IP geolocation in the past, I don't think this works. Though it can do a pretty good job of getting you in the right continent. * Not all traffic goes through fiber - there are microwave links operating closer to the speed of light, though these are mostly reserved for high-speed trading. There's also satellite connections, but as long as they don't do satellite-staellite, they're slower. * There are…

> there are microwave links operating closer to the speed of light, though these are mostly reserved for high-speed trading This is so sad.

Sure, but if it becomes ubiquitous, web devs will assume lower latency. That wouldn't make it less sad, just makes different people sad - my first guesses are those at crowded areas with overloaded cellular connections, and Australians.

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#52

Post by tomtomistaken »

dboreham wrote: post #47

Proof of location has been researched/studied for a while. There are systems that depend on a mesh of RF connected nodes and associated economic game (which could be replaced by some government authority) to ensure validity. E.g. https://foam.space/about

I love what Foam is/was doing. Unfortunately the project looks dead..

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#53

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

Isn't this trivially broken? I can't use a VPN, but if I log into a shell at Amsterdam and run the program there (say, Firefox in a remote X Windows context), then all the code they might need will execute there. If any user interaction is needed, this can be pre-scripted.

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#54

Post by c-riq »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #43
skaushik92 wrote: post #7

> Key Advantages: [...] Can provide supportive evidence for VPN/proxy usage, when the latency is too high for all server locations I'm reading through the description, but I'm having trouble understanding the difference between a client having a higher overall latency due to bandwidth/connectivity concerns (e.g. a 3G phone) versus using a VPN. Both would have increased timings and the clock skew would be similar. Wou…

Why is clock skew being used here at all? I'm confused why the client's clock is being trusted or consulted in any way for a measurement like this. I should probably click through and read the details. ETA Ok, reading the code turned up not a lot of comments. But it did produce the following line. I hope that's for testing and not the actual nonce generation process: nonce = 'ieoskirlyzauuv6ehdug8lift65fkrddeuu6f5z6k…

> Why is clock skew being used here at all? You're right, it's not actually necessary to use the client clock at all. It was easier to implement it that way initially and I kept it in the description and didn't think about it again.. Thanks for pointing that out. Since all timestamps are measured, the calculations can actually also be made afterwards without using the client clock timestamps at all. However this may add a bit more noise. > not the actual nonce The nonce can only be used once so it's ok to share it afterwards.

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#55

Post by croemer »

It would be nice if there was a standalone POC for the geolocation. I only found the vote website. There, one can enable the latency geolocation feature - but it doesn't display any results (it shows latency to various servers but not any analysis thereof).

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#56

Post by jagged-chisel »

jawiggins wrote: post #2

> Latency-based geolocation can help protect poll integrity by: > Detecting when poll responses originate from outside the intended geographic region > Identifying attempts to manipulate polls through elevated VPN/proxy usage Unless the user also needs to complete a reaction-time test, couldn't this be defeated by using a remote desktop connection to a machine that is physically located in the other geography? It jus…

My state lottery app doesn’t let you play outside the state. It detects screen sharing and VPN configuration and refuses to run if it sees these things.

Depending on the importance of the poll, one could definitely apply these other requirements.

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#57

Post by Jimmc414 »

I'm not seeing in the proposal what is to prevent variable latency - from network congestion, route changes, quality of service differences, ISP peering arrangements, last-mile connection quality variations, and router queue delays - being interpreted as a distance metric?

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#58

Post by c-riq »

SteveVeilStream wrote: post #37

It's an interesting concept. Re: "Cannot be manipulated unlike GPS signal derived coordinates, which can be altered by the user's device before relaying them to the server" Is it possible to ensure that the data is not manipulated? If the user had to install a voting software package on their phone, then couldn't that piece of software take responsibility for pulling the co-ordinates from the device and encrypting it…

> Is it possible to ensure that the data is not manipulated? I don't think one can place much trust in phones not being tampered with as they are frequently jailbroken. So you could supply fake GPS antenna data to the software or I believe you could in principle also put your phone in a metal box and spoof actual GPS signals into the box. Civilian GPS signals aren't encrypted, I think..

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#59

Post by mrguyorama »

jampekka wrote: post #36
mac3n wrote: post #14

having worked on IP geolocation in the past, I don't think this works. Though it can do a pretty good job of getting you in the right continent. * Not all traffic goes through fiber - there are microwave links operating closer to the speed of light, though these are mostly reserved for high-speed trading. There's also satellite connections, but as long as they don't do satellite-staellite, they're slower. * There are…

> there are microwave links operating closer to the speed of light, though these are mostly reserved for high-speed trading This is so sad.

It's really not. The microwave links got decommissioned everywhere because nobody NEEDS that higher fraction of lightspeed. High speed trading is the only field where saving a singular millisecond is economically rewarded. The links used by high speed trading are the only ones left.

Re: Proof of location for online polls

#60

Post by gruez »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #25
engineer_22 wrote: post #9

When i went to buy a SIM card I had to show ID. Is that the case in all America? Why not offload verification onto telecoms.

With eSIMs, I think all you need nowadays is a credit card + billing address.

There are vendors that accept crypto as well, so not even billing information is needed.
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