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Extracting AI models from mobile apps

altayakkus.substack.com

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Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#51

Post by rusk »

cabalamat wrote: post #41
ANewFormation wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that you mention it, I'm quite surprised that none of the typical fanatical IP lawsuiters had sued arguing (reasonably I think) that the output of the LLMs is strongly suggestive that they have been trained on copyrighted materials. Get the lawsuit to discovery, and those data centers become fair game. Perhaps 'strongly suggestive' isn't enough.

> strongly suggestive that they have been trained on copyrighted materials Given that everything -- including this comment -- is copyrighted unless it is (1) old or (2) deliberately put into the public domain, this is almost certainly true.

Isn’t this comment in the public domain? I presume that’s what I’m doing when I’m posting on a forum. If somebody copied and pasted something I wrote on here could I in theory use copyright law to restrict distribution? I think the law would say I published it on a public forum and thus it is in the public domain.

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#52

Post by rusk »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #33
roywiggins wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems clear from this definition especially: > (A) to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner In this case there is no copyright owner.

Right, that’s what I was getting at with my parenthetical. Obviously the work has to have an owned copyright in order to be protected by copyright law.

This is interesting. I wonder could you use it as a basis for “legally” circumventing a technology by applying it to non-copyrighted works.

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#53

Post by rusk »

blitzar wrote: post #29
zitterbewegung wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL But, this is not true it would be a piece of the software. If there is a copyright on the app itself it would extend to the model. Even models have licenses for example LLAMA is release under this license [1] [1] https://github.com/meta-llama/llama/blob/main/LICENSE

If I understand the position of major players in this field, copyright itself is optional (for them at least).

They claim “safe harbour” - if nobody complains it’s fair game

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#54

Post by nullc »

Lerc wrote: post #10
wat10000 wrote: post #4

“ Keep in mind that AI models, like most things, are considered intellectual property. Before using or modifying any extracted models, you need the explicit permission of their owner.” That’s not true, is it? It would be a copyright violation to distribute an extracted model, but you can do what you want with it yourself.

I'm not even sure if event the first part is true. Has it been determined if AI models are intellectual property? Machine generated content may not be copyrightable. It isn't just the output of generative AI that falls under this, the models themselves are. Can you copyright a set of coefficients for a formula? In the sense of a JPEG it would be considered that the image being reproduced is the thing that has the cop…

The weights are a product of a mechanical process, 5 years ago it would be generally uncontroversial that they would be not subject to copyright in the US... but 'industry' has done a tremendous job of spreading confusion.

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#56

Post by npteljes »

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #3

> Keep in mind that AI models [...] are considered intellectual property Is it ironic or missing a /s? I can't really tell here.

I think it's both. It's

1. the current, unproven-in-court legal understanding, 2. standard disclaimer to cover OP's ass 3. tongue-in-cheek reference to the prevalent argument that training AI on data, and then offering it via AI is being a parasite on that original data

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#57

Post by BadHumans »

jdietrich wrote: post #8
wat10000 wrote: post #4

“ Keep in mind that AI models, like most things, are considered intellectual property. Before using or modifying any extracted models, you need the explicit permission of their owner.” That’s not true, is it? It would be a copyright violation to distribute an extracted model, but you can do what you want with it yourself.

Circumventing a copy-prevention system without a valid exemption is a crime, even if you don't make unlawful copies. Copyright covers the right to make copies, not the right to distribute; "doing what you want with it yourself" may or may not be covered by fair use. Whether or not model weights are copyrightable remains an open question. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

Is using millions of copyrighted works to train your AI a valid exemption? Asking for a few billionaire friends.

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#58

Post by zitterbewegung »

blitzar wrote: post #29
zitterbewegung wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL But, this is not true it would be a piece of the software. If there is a copyright on the app itself it would extend to the model. Even models have licenses for example LLAMA is release under this license [1] [1] https://github.com/meta-llama/llama/blob/main/LICENSE

If I understand the position of major players in this field, copyright itself is optional (for them at least).

True, I think there has to be a case that sets precedent for this issue.

Re: Extracting AI models from mobile apps

#59

Post by taormina »

rusk wrote: post #51
cabalamat wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> strongly suggestive that they have been trained on copyrighted materials Given that everything -- including this comment -- is copyrighted unless it is (1) old or (2) deliberately put into the public domain, this is almost certainly true.

Isn’t this comment in the public domain? I presume that’s what I’m doing when I’m posting on a forum. If somebody copied and pasted something I wrote on here could I in theory use copyright law to restrict distribution? I think the law would say I published it on a public forum and thus it is in the public domain.

Why would it be in the public domain? Anything you create, under US copyright law, is the opposite of being in the public domain, it's yours. According to the legalese of YC, you are granting YC and YC alone a license to use the UGC you submitted to their website, but if anything, the YC agreement DEMANDS that you own the copyright to the comment you are posting.

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