Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

den.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 270 posts

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#51

Post by chii »

dend wrote: post #47
rpcope1 wrote: post #44

> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transfor…

Nothing to disagree in this statement, for sure. If it's on the open internet, it will almost surely be used for AI training, consent be damned. But it feels like even at a rudimentary level, if I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse to pursue the matter and prevent them from using my content. In contrast, if I uploaded something to…

> Meta "sublicensed" my image to someone else, I wouldn't have much to say there.

but you agreed to this, when agreeing to the TOS.

> I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse

which you didn't sign any contract, and therefore it is a violation of copyright.

But the new AI training methods are currently, at least imho, not a violation of copyright - not any more than a human eye viewing it (which you've implicitly given permission to do so, by putting it up on the internet). On the other hand, if you put it behind a gate (no matter how trivial), then you could've at least legally protected yourself.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#52

Post by chii »

greenavocado wrote: post #22
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #17

This all sounds like renting to me. Instead you should: - put a rack in your home - buy an IPv4 block - buy dark fibre - start your own ISP - advertise routes over BGP - host your own email - found a registrar and transfer your domains over All easily obtainable for less than a million dollars in capital. Though once your FTTH and undersea cable operations ramp up you'll need further access to capital.

It's all fun and games until you need to deal with the right of way

the way to deal with the right of way is "might makes right". As it always has.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#53

Post by Suppafly »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #17

This all sounds like renting to me. Instead you should: - put a rack in your home - buy an IPv4 block - buy dark fibre - start your own ISP - advertise routes over BGP - host your own email - found a registrar and transfer your domains over All easily obtainable for less than a million dollars in capital. Though once your FTTH and undersea cable operations ramp up you'll need further access to capital.

I really wouldn't mind doing steps 1-3 & 6-7 if it were easier. I don't really care about being an ISP though.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#54

Post by jasonjayr »

richardw wrote: post #45
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #17

This all sounds like renting to me. Instead you should: - put a rack in your home - buy an IPv4 block - buy dark fibre - start your own ISP - advertise routes over BGP - host your own email - found a registrar and transfer your domains over All easily obtainable for less than a million dollars in capital. Though once your FTTH and undersea cable operations ramp up you'll need further access to capital.

The second you have a domain you can move it where you want. Change the software, look and feel. You keep subscribers. You don’t need to own every atom, just enough to give you options. You can’t move your X or FB account. They can block you anytime, or reduce traffic. Way fewer options.

Recent story regarding itch.io: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42363727

Just owning your own domain, minding your own business, doesn't guarantee that it won't be taken down on a whim.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#57

Post by CamperBob2 »

rpcope1 wrote: post #44

> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transfor…

You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots.

So? What do I care? If some stuff I posted to my website (with no requirement for attribution or remuneration, and also no guarantee that the information is true or valid) can improve the AI services that I use, great.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#58

Post by dend »

jasonjayr wrote: post #54
richardw wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second you have a domain you can move it where you want. Change the software, look and feel. You keep subscribers. You don’t need to own every atom, just enough to give you options. You can’t move your X or FB account. They can block you anytime, or reduce traffic. Way fewer options.

Recent story regarding itch.io: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42363727 Just owning your own domain, minding your own business, doesn't guarantee that it won't be taken down on a whim.

Not impossible, but the likelihood of a domain being taken away on a whim compared to a social network deciding to "shadowban" or just disable an account on their network is significantly lower. Also, with a domain you might have a legal recourse to pursue with the registrar/registry. With a social network account? You're on someone else's turf, and they can do what they want.

Re: Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

#59

Post by matheusmoreira »

rpcope1 wrote: post #44

> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transfor…

> I can absolutely see why someone rational would want to share a whole lot less, anywhere, in an open fashion, regardless of where it's hosted.

I've reached the same conclusion.

All data is just bits. Numbers. Once it's out there, trying to control their spread and use is just delusional. People should just stop sharing things publicly. Even things like AGPLv3 are proving to be ineffective against their exploitation.

I really didn't expect to live in this "copyright for me, not for thee" world. The same corporations that compare us mere mortals to high seas pirates when we infringe their copyrights are now getting caught shamelessly AI laundering the copyrights of others on an industrial scale.

It's so demoralizing. I feel like giving up and just going private. Problem is I also want to share the things I made. To talk about my projects with real people. Programming is lonely enough as it is. Without sharing I'm not sure what the point even is. I have no idea what I'm supposed to do from now on. I just know I don't want to end up working for free to enrich trillion dollar corporations.

Post reply on HN