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How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

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Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#51

Post by nottorp »

layer8 wrote: post #36
nottorp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CPU wise or whole system wise? You can play some pretty taxing x86 3d games on my M3 pro laptops, in spite of the two layers of emulation. Those Lunar Lake laptops would need a GPU for that wouldn't they? Have they in the Wintel world figured out why Apple trackpads can actually act like a mouse replacement yet?

Whole-system wise (they roughly doubled the battery life over the previous generation [0]), and the Intel SoCs have reasonably powerful integrated GPUs. I’m not a laptop user myself and don’t consider even Apple trackpads (I actually own one of their desktop trackpads) anywhere close to a viable mouse replacement, so no further comment on that. [0] e.g. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/first-intel-lunar-lake...

Well you clearly can't play first person shooters even on Apple's trackpads, but every time I switch to an x86 one the control is more ... approximate.

On my apple laptops i've succesfully played stuff like Minecraft or Path of Exile without a physical mouse. And never missed a mouse while doing software development.

> reasonably powerful integrated GPUs.

Path of Exile is anything but reasonable to the GPU. And on an older M2 mac mini I was lucky to get 20-25 fps. However, the M3 pro on my laptop can mostly run it at 60, to my complete astonishment. Especially considering it's a windows application that is ran by x86 wine that is translated to arm by rosetta 2...

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#52

Post by CT4u8798 »

I never buy new laptops, and I always put linux on the ones I do buy. My only issues have been running the more resource intensive applications I needed to run as a student, and the fact that the university expects you to be running windows. But as an everyday machine a used/refurbished laptop is the way to go.

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#53

Post by [deleted] »

cconcannon wrote: post #40
nottorp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is any middle ground left between thin and portable and all soldered and replaceable components and "transportable" instead of "portable". Gaming like laptops are a no no for me, sorry. And I doubt there's anything just slightly larger than a macbook pro but with upgradeable components.

Have you considered a Framework laptop? They have 13-inch and 16-inch models and are designed to be upgraded. https://frame.work/

[deleted]

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#54

Post by nottorp »

cconcannon wrote: post #40
nottorp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is any middle ground left between thin and portable and all soldered and replaceable components and "transportable" instead of "portable". Gaming like laptops are a no no for me, sorry. And I doubt there's anything just slightly larger than a macbook pro but with upgradeable components.

Have you considered a Framework laptop? They have 13-inch and 16-inch models and are designed to be upgraded. https://frame.work/

Hah, I was going to say they're an US only thing but I opened their web site and they gave me localized pricing this time.

Ofc, it's easy to run prices through a converter so I wonder where they ship from and where the warranty is located...

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#55

Post by vouaobrasil »

I gladly buy lots of used things but laptops aren't one of them. The reason is that, at least from my experience, laptops only last between 5-8 years before they become more trouble than they are worth (either they become too slow as was the case with my previous Macbook or they stop working for some unknown reason, or the battery life sucks). I've also noticed laptops get beat up easily -- the vast majority of used Macbooks have dings.

What I do instead is buy a moderately powerful new one and just use it until it dies -- I don't upgrade before the laptop is truly dead.

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#56

Post by nottorp »

ksec wrote: post #37
nottorp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jumping from x86 to arm may be worth it just because of how little power it needs. Perhaps you'd like a laptop where the fan never [*] turns on enough to be audible and with 20 hours battery life? They fixed the keyboard and the trackpad has been good even in the emoji keyboard models. Do get one with 32 Gb ram if you can. You never know what you'll want to use it for next year. [*] Of course, if you compile/run rend…

>They fixed the keyboard and the trackpad has been good even in the emoji keyboard models. I actually have one with my previous company and they are still not as good. New Scissors has a key travel distance of 1mm instead of 1.5mm, and trackpad is too large that causes false positive compare to zero on my MacBook 2015. Was rather hoping Apple to walk back these two thing by the time I get a new MacBook for myself. Bu…

Hmm that's probably because you do a direct comparison to the 2015.

I made the mistake of getting an emoji keyboard model in like 2019 and this new M3 Pro felt like I could breathe again :)

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#57

Post by scarface_74 »

CT4u8798 wrote: post #52

I never buy new laptops, and I always put linux on the ones I do buy. My only issues have been running the more resource intensive applications I needed to run as a student, and the fact that the university expects you to be running windows. But as an everyday machine a used/refurbished laptop is the way to go.

Aren’t you kind of burying the lede?

You had a laptop that didn’t meet your needs?

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#58

Post by cconcannon »

scarface_74 wrote: post #43
cconcannon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered a Framework laptop? They have 13-inch and 16-inch models and are designed to be upgraded. https://frame.work/

Do they have 15 hour battery life, run cool and silent like my MacBook Air? The Framework laptop has way too many compromises https://www.theverge.com/24185827/framework-laptop-16-six-mo...

I have the 16” Framework model and I bought it as a replacement for my personal 2019 Macbook Pro 16 after the Macbook screen died last year. Apple wanted more than $700 for a replacement screen. After 17 years of owning Powerbooks and Macbooks, I decided to ditch Apple and instead buy a laptop that I could repair and upgrade easily. I’d compare Framework models to the Macbook Pro in terms of battery life and performance. The battery life and performance of new Framework builds don’t quite match the stats for new Macbook Pro models but the tradeoff is that the Framework models are less expensive, upgradeable, and very closely resemble the portability of a Macbook Pro.

They’re noticeably bigger and run warmer with less battery life than a Macbook Air.

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#59

Post by nottorp »

scarface_74 wrote: post #43
cconcannon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered a Framework laptop? They have 13-inch and 16-inch models and are designed to be upgraded. https://frame.work/

Do they have 15 hour battery life, run cool and silent like my MacBook Air? The Framework laptop has way too many compromises https://www.theverge.com/24185827/framework-laptop-16-six-mo...

> Other than an incredibly annoying habit of failing to sleep when its discrete GPU is awake,

I don't think we can blame Framework for that on their own, Microsoft must surely have a contribution to this.

But still, after getting used to apple's offerings I don't think I'd like a laptop where you need to check if it actually went to sleep instead of just closing the lid and moving along.

> They’re noticeably bigger and run warmer with less battery life than a Macbook Air.

Bigger is fine to a point. Less battery life, same. But the heat and noise when you have alternatives that don't have the problem...

Re: How and Why I Stopped Buying New Laptops (2020)

#60

Post by Daniel_sk »

sourraspberry wrote: post #45

Spent like $2000 NZD on a new XPS 13 to replace my old XPS 13 from ~2017 - a device I loved. The new one was a piece of hot garbage. Overheat and throttled playing League of Legends - a game that has ran adequately on every other piece of hardware I've owned since 2011? I couldn't understand how a 2022 device would run so much worse than 2017 device and assumed it was faulty. Returned, given a replacement, same issue…

That brings back memories of me using an XPS 13. In theory it was a great notebook, but in real world it has lots of annoying issues. I then bough a Macbook and never looked back.
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