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It's okay to code on nights and weekends

tej.as

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Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#51

Post by htrp »

diggan wrote: post #38
ghaff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all that. But software development also often seems to have a strong thread that if you don't also do this for fun, you're not really A material--in a way that really doesn't apply to other engineering disciplines. I don't see the same sort of pushback for people who do side-projects as a hobby.

> I agree with all that. But software development also often seems to have a strong thread that if you don't also do this for fun, you're not really A material--in a way that really doesn't apply to other engineering disciplines. This is the same in every space/community/hobby I've ever participated in. The people who don't live and breathe $SUBJECT 24/7 are often passed off as "posers" and only doing it for the mone…

> in everything from software engineering, finance, gardening, music making, game development or whatever.

In finance, the A tier people don't have work/life balance. It's expected for them to demand effective 24/7 availability (and they get paid accordingly)

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#52

Post by brokencode »

diggan wrote: post #34
brokencode wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I avoid all side projects at home because they turn into a huge distraction for me at work. It’s hard for me not to think about them all day. So the whole “program for fun to get a job” thing has always felt pretty dumb to me. Companies should only care about what I get done at work. What I do at home is my business.

> Companies should only care about what I get done at work. What I do at home is my business. I mean to some extent you're right, but obviously there are limits here. And, it can be used as a signal to see how interested a person is in something. As one example, I don't have any college education or beyond that, and when I wanted to start working as a programmer it was kind of hard to get any response from companies…

Oh yeah, I was talking from my perspective as somebody more established in the industry.

I definitely think that if you’re just getting started, especially if you don’t have the typical college degree and internships, side projects are a great way to demonstrate your skills.

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#53

Post by ghaff »

htrp wrote: post #51
diggan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree with all that. But software development also often seems to have a strong thread that if you don't also do this for fun, you're not really A material--in a way that really doesn't apply to other engineering disciplines. This is the same in every space/community/hobby I've ever participated in. The people who don't live and breathe $SUBJECT 24/7 are often passed off as "posers" and only doing it for the mone…

> in everything from software engineering, finance, gardening, music making, game development or whatever. In finance, the A tier people don't have work/life balance. It's expected for them to demand effective 24/7 availability (and they get paid accordingly)

Yes, but that's different from having finance as a hobby.

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#54

Post by boh »

asdasdsddd wrote: post #40
boh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "while back".

Yes like 5 years ago

Without pointing out that what happened five years ago doesn't reflect current priorities, that wasn't really a thing back then either. Unless you're fresh out of college with zero previous experience, your work experience is the only thing that matters. Don't let the feel-good, you-can-do-it, power-through posts fool you, a side project getting you a job is a rarity (unless you're one of the first 10 programmers on a PyTorch level library--and those type of guys usually have careers by the time they work on that stuff).

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#55

Post by HEmanZ »

ghaff wrote: post #12
x0xrx wrote: post #3

A lot of people that are in tech because it’s a good job got pressured to make it their life. They reasonably pushed back, but the upshot was those of us that are passionate about programming as a hobby got pressured to not do it for fun. Both things are unreasonable. You shouldn’t have to program for fun to get a job. You can be good at it as a profession only. You also should be allowed to love it as a vocation or…

I agree with all that. But software development also often seems to have a strong thread that if you don't also do this for fun, you're not really A material--in a way that really doesn't apply to other engineering disciplines. I don't see the same sort of pushback for people who do side-projects as a hobby.

I only encountered this attitude during college, when doing smart extra work outside of class or internships definitely put you ahead.

In the real world, I literally can’t name a single Senior+ engineer (at the FAANG+ companies I’ve worked at) who codes for fun outside of work. Plenty of them have other constructive and interesting hobbies, but not coding.

Put another way, your hobby app that got 15 downloads doesn’t matter at all if your day job regularly has you shipping code to millions (or especially if it’s billions) of users.

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#56

Post by zelphirkalt »

boh wrote: post #7
threatofrain wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a hypothetical employer, should I be allowed to select for people who love programming because my internal metrics say they're an awesome fit? If so, then that's where the fundamental pressure is going to come from. So we can be on HN and sing "Oh, you do you!" but that won't relieve the fundamental source of pressure.

You can hypothetically do whatever you want, no one in the real world is hiring you because you "love programming".

The state of software in most places reflects this.

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#57

Post by devsda »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #42
bee_rider wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is some anxiety on the part of people who love code, and find the computer to be a little magic almost-thinking box that is one of the most interesting things humans have ever invented, that the boring careerists will take all the fun out of it. Somebody is willing to pay us to play with the magic box, but now these other folks have come along and they don’t even seem to enjoy the game? WTF, go away if…

I think this hits the mark, or almost hits the mark. I think there is more to it. People who are passionate about computer programming and also do it off the job will over time gain more experience and knowledge than their only on the job counterparts. There is at least one additional anxiety, which is, that in a company people don't listen to those, who do it with passion, and rather play hierarchy games. When they…

> People who are passionate about computer programming and also do it off the job will over time gain more experience and knowledge than their only on the job counterparts.

Those who are passionate also have a tendency to use their personal time to "try/do/fix that one last thing for work" because they are really excited.

The problem is the said extra work gradually eats into personal time & projects and it raises baseline expectations from the employer even when it stops being fun. Then the grind begins with no personal time or projects. That's a common recipe for burn-out.

Those who can have strict separation between work & personal time or projects will obviously not fall into this trap but when you are excited and passionate, its hard to realize and fight against it.

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#58

Post by jumski »

Thank you for sharing this—it resonates deeply with me. I share the same passion and often struggle to separate work from life because I genuinely enjoy programming. Over time, I’ve come to realize that as long as I stay connected to my family and relationships, I can find balance and even relax by doing what I love—coding. Knowing there are others who share these experiences is truly reassuring.

By the way, have you read Paul Graham's essay "A Project of One's Own" (https://paulgraham.com/own.html)? I really connected with his idea of being a "skater," and I wonder if you might relate to it as well.

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#59

Post by crtez »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #6

I have a non-coding day job and spend most of my time thinking about how to improve my projects when I get home, then code late into the night. Trying to get hired as a programmer somewhere, but part of me also worries it might exhaust me from coding on my own projects. If only I had enough spare time to build something worth monetizing while being able to pay the bills...

I was originally worried that my coding job would suck the passion out of me, but weirdly, it’s cut the other way. The banality of the work that I do for my job makes me appreciate my personal projects more, and makes me more galvanized to do coding that does bring fulfillment. I suppose this isn’t necessary desirable however, since it relies on your job being a chore.

Re: It's okay to code on nights and weekends

#60

Post by okwhateverdude »

boh wrote: post #54
asdasdsddd wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes like 5 years ago

Without pointing out that what happened five years ago doesn't reflect current priorities, that wasn't really a thing back then either. Unless you're fresh out of college with zero previous experience, your work experience is the only thing that matters. Don't let the feel-good, you-can-do-it, power-through posts fool you, a side project getting you a job is a rarity (unless you're one of the first 10 programmers on…

I'd argue it is a bit more common than you think, but probably for different reasons than you would assume. It isn't so much the impact of the side project that gets you the job, but more about networking. If you are involved in an am-pro manner in a given FOSS community by actively participating (code, docs, etc) and speaking (blogs, conferences, workshops, etc), your networking opportunities explode. Anecdotally, this is how I landed some really nice gigs, even if that community (and tech) has all but evaporated now. But if you're toiling away on some project and not actively engaging with anyone that would remotely care, your potential employers very likely won't care either unless they are specifically looking for it.
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