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They have not been trained for this

ccc.de

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Re: They have not been trained for this

#51

Post by trod1234 »

graemep wrote: post #47
trod1234 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If businesses are unable to regulate themselves, it must be done by law. If copyright is the root of the problem, it may be time to remove that protection; or at least revert it so it is more in-line with patent law expiration. No more author's life + 75. Lets try 15-20 once again, and no derivative protection, unless significantly different, receive protection.

Also, different terms for different works. Having the same rules for software, drugs, books, paintings etc. is ridiculous. Software should require disclosure of details of what is protected (e.g. the source) so it can be public used post expiry - just as patents give you a monopoly only what is disclosed in the patent.

Agreed.

I'd add that functionally dependent software that is used for the items primary purpose, or its features, should also receive little to no protection, and be disclosed up-front.

You own the things that you buy.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#53

Post by dang »

magicalhippo wrote: post #50
dang wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Macroexpanded: Manufacturer's Repair DRM Killed Train's Power, Broke Compressor - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38893116 - Jan 2024 (2 comments) Breaking "DRM" in Polish trains [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38788360 - Dec 2023 (51 comments) Polish DRMed trains stop as predicted due to date-based logic-bomb - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38729035 - Dec 2023 (103 comments) Trains…

> Macroexpanded Unrelated but is this macro available to others, or just mods? I tried searching the webs for it but found nothing.

I use that word as a joke/metaphor - sorry if that misled you!

here's more of an explanation if curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40564558

Re: They have not been trained for this

#55

Post by mx20 »

majke wrote: post #45
SR2Z wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 20k euros, would it not just be cheaper to hire some software people to jailbreak them? If companies that did this got jailbroken and blacklisted by the government, pretty much nobody would try this bullshit.

The firmware would need to be certified. They mentioned that in the q&a couple of minutes ago. Apparently its a critical component.

I remember they said in the last talk last year that there is a "cheat code" that resets the software locks, but almost every train also had slightly different software to obfuscate that they are sabotaging their competition.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#56

Post by joe_the_user »

pmarreck wrote: post #19

What happened to the old moral rule of "if you explain to your mom what you are doing and she is dismayed, you are doing things wrong"? Because what Newag is doing very clearly violates it.

That rule is essentially about "what will get you in trouble politically". But today you have a fair number of large and monopolistic operations that just ignore such effects - the press is underfunded and corrupt and politicians are simply corrupt (in a broad sense).

Re: They have not been trained for this

#57

Post by magicalhippo »

dang wrote: post #53
magicalhippo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Macroexpanded Unrelated but is this macro available to others, or just mods? I tried searching the webs for it but found nothing.

I use that word as a joke/metaphor - sorry if that misled you! here's more of an explanation if curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40564558

Aha, thanks for the explanation. Bit tedious to do manually, but helpful. Perhaps one day I'll sit down and attempt to make a greasemonkey script for that.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#58

Post by devwastaken »

TheSpiffiest wrote: post #28
notpushkin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright is the root of the problem. More regulation could be a solution, sure, but is it really what we want?

Yes? Unless we want to let manufacturers sell us a vehicle but license the code that makes it run.

intellectual property law is regulation. regulators always get bought out because regulators career advance to the companies they worked with. remove intellectual property and the market fixes the problem.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#59

Post by kaszanka »

boricj wrote: post #29
jdiez17 wrote: post #4

I just donated 133,7€ and will gladly do it again if further legal costs arise. Please consider also making a generous donation and post about it in this thread. What Newag is doing here is absolutely vile. They want to charge 20.000€ per train to “reactivate” them after they have been serviced at third party workshops. We must not let them win and set a precedent. I highly encourage everyone to watch the previous pr…

> I highly encourage everyone to watch the previous presentation: https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-12142-breaking_drm_in_polish_tra... According to the schedule [1], there's a presentation from that team titled "We've not been trained for this: life after the Newag DRM disclosure" that will start at 23:00 local time (in about 30 minutes at the time of this writing) on this livestream [2]. Edit: presentation's over and it…

Here's the live recording link for those who missed it and are too impatient to wait for the cleaned-up one: https://streaming.media.ccc.de/38c3/relive/233cb1d4-4833-538...

Re: They have not been trained for this

#60

Post by devwastaken »

we live in a post intellectual property age. its about manufacturing and resources now. it is overwhelmingly used to suppress upstarts and remove diverse competition in the market before they can get their legs. regulators go on to work for the companies they regulated. The conflicts of interest create an oligopoly that is more about lawyers than about engineering.

its time we repealed it all. no one gets to own an idea of the universe. especially not a faceless org created for tax purposes.

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