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The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

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Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#51

Post by asdefghyk »

tptacek wrote: post #29
asdefghyk wrote: post #15

Google reveals the CEO who died and other United Healthcare executive's are being investigated for insider trading, enriching themselves by many millions. (And conversely, others must have lost millions. ) Also being investigated for fraud.( I thought this may be possible cause for murder, but it appears not. )

We don't have to retcon subtle rationales onto the murder; the guy wrote a manifesto. It was bad, and dumb, as writers from both ends of the political spectrum and points between have observed.

The point is the CEO (and other United HeathCare exec's) is not as squeaky clean as widely mentioned in the media

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#52

Post by hackable_sand »

benreesman wrote: post #13
jnwatson wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US political system is at all time low of responsiveness to the needs of its citizens. Congress has been dysfunctional longer than Mangione has been alive. It makes sense that a young man would lash out this way. Violence should indeed be the last resort, and for many folks the alternatives are dwindling.

Let’s try everything we can before resorting to violence? Once that starts, that’s a forest fire that burns in ways no one can control.

Violence is literally always a last resort.

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#54

Post by benreesman »

tptacek wrote: post #49
itsdrewmiller wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Widely" could mean a lot of things - it doesn't appear to have anywhere close to majority support, but more than 15% of Americans (and almost half of young people) think it was at least acceptable: https://archive.ph/hXNhj That's around 50 million people.

That's an extrapolation from a poll, not literally 50 million people, and you can get 15% of a poll sample to say almost anything, including (first thing that popped up in my Google search) that Hitler was good actually.

Let’s not finely parse the polling (or any commenter’s history of poll citing):

how about a fucking unprecedented number of people are vigorously endorsing an assassination? How about a fucking huge number that’s a big deal?

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#55

Post by tptacek »

asdefghyk wrote: post #51
tptacek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to retcon subtle rationales onto the murder; the guy wrote a manifesto. It was bad, and dumb, as writers from both ends of the political spectrum and points between have observed.

The point is the CEO (and other United HeathCare exec's) is not as squeaky clean as widely mentioned in the media

Who cares? What possible difference does that make?

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#56

Post by tptacek »

benreesman wrote: post #54
tptacek wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an extrapolation from a poll, not literally 50 million people, and you can get 15% of a poll sample to say almost anything, including (first thing that popped up in my Google search) that Hitler was good actually.

Let’s not finely parse the polling (or any commenter’s history of poll citing): how about a fucking unprecedented number of people are vigorously endorsing an assassination? How about a fucking huge number that’s a big deal?

You mean like the poll that showed an unprecedented number of people supporting Hitler?

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#57

Post by mandmandam »

tptacek wrote: post #45
mandmandam wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your tone, I would bet that your cited "writers from both ends of the political spectrum and points between" read the fake manifesto [0]. The (more likely) real [1] one isn't as easily dismissed. 0 - https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2024/12/fact-check-fake-m... 1 - https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/luigis-manifesto

I'm referring to the especially dumb one you linked at [1].

His actions touched a nerve. If you want to try and smear the alleged manifesto, go ahead, but I don't think you'll be changing many minds. And by the way, there's no shortage of "writers from both ends of the political spectrum and points between" who broadly agree with its points.

Luigi is more popular than Joe Biden lol [0]. 60% of New Yorkers would acquit him [1] (100,000 sample size).

0 - https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/suspected-unitedheal...

1 - https://www.econotimes.com/Shocking-Poll-60-of-New-Yorkers-S...

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#58

Post by tptacek »

mandmandam wrote: post #57
tptacek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to the especially dumb one you linked at [1].

His actions touched a nerve. If you want to try and smear the alleged manifesto, go ahead, but I don't think you'll be changing many minds. And by the way, there's no shortage of "writers from both ends of the political spectrum and points between" who broadly agree with its points. Luigi is more popular than Joe Biden lol [0]. 60% of New Yorkers would acquit him [1] (100,000 sample size). 0 - https://www.msn.com/en-…

No, you just tried to imply that the "real" manifesto was somehow difficult to dismiss. That's the one I was referring to. It's obviously easy to dismiss --- it literally dismisses itself at one point, saying that other people understand the problems better than he does. I'd be interested in what led you to think it was strong.

"The poll, conducted by PoliticsVideoChannel". Heh.

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#59

Post by shitter »

isoprophlex wrote: post #4

The article seems quite level-headed and thoughtful. That said, this jumps the gun: > The idea that trauma is passed down epigenetically is not only unscientific, it’s also un-agentic; if you believe your trauma is hardwired into your DNA, you’re prone to passively accept it rather than actively trying to overcome it. Recent research is pretty convincing that the "folk wisdom" of trauma being passed down to later gen…

Yes, it's no more "un-agentic" than the fact that trauma can be transferred psychologically during one's upbringing. Is there any evidence that this kind of trauma is trivial to overcome compared to the kind that's "hardwired into your DNA"?

Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione

#60

Post by FollowingTheDao »

jnwatson wrote: post #28
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #7

So this guy had a few twitter exchanges with Luigi and he thinks the US healthcare system isn't that bad? Doesn't really seem like an article for HN. But as long as we're here I think, sort of like Luigi, I'll let other people argue about whether the US healthcare system functions well or efficiently. But as for this: >While it’s true that UnitedHealthcare has the highest denial rate for medical claims, the CEO doesn…

One of the author's points was that if United took no profit, it could only very slightly increase services. The only ethical thing that Thompson could have done is advocated for the dissolution of his and his competitors' firms, which would have had him out of a job quickly. The actual problem is the system where United exists at all. Health insurance provides exceedingly little value for a very high cost. One issue…

> The only ethical thing that Thompson could have done is advocated for the dissolution of his and his competitors' firms, which would have had him out of a job quickly.

Since UHC is a publicly traded company, this action would actually be illegal sice teh CEO's job is to protect the shareholder.

I can image many people here have stock in these companies. So, tell me who is responsible? There is greed everywhere you look if you are honest with yourself.

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