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Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

the-scientist.com

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Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#51

Did Star Trek not already warn us about this one?

Clarke warned us, in "2061: Odissey 3" (Beware: spoilers):

> The doctor seemed to be struggling for words. 'What, dammit?' 'Something came up out, of the water, Like a parrot beak, but about a hundred times bigger. It took - Rosie - with one snap, and disappeared. We have some impressive company here; even if we could breathe outside, I certainly wouldn't recommend swimming -' 'Bridge to Captain,' said the officer on duty, 'Big disturbance in the water - camera three - I'll give you the picture.' 'That's the thing I saw!' cried the doctor. He felt a sudden chill at the inevitable, ominous thought: I hope it's not back for more. Suddenly, a vast bulk broke through the surface of the ocean and arched into the sky. For a moment, the whole monstrous shape was suspended between air and water. The familiar can be as shocking as the strange - when it is in the wrong place. Both captain and doctor exclaimed simultaneously: 'It's a shark!' There was just time to notice a few subtle differences - in addition to the monstrous parrot-beak - before the giant crashed back into the sea. There was an extra pair of fins - and there appeared to be no gills. Nor were there any eyes, but on either side of the beak there were curious protuberances that might be some other sense organs. 'Convergent evolution, of course,' said the doctor. 'Same problems, same solutions, on any planet. Look at Earth. Sharks, dolphins, ichthyosaurs - all oceanic predators must have the same basic design. That beak puzzles me, though -' 'What's it doing now?' The creature had surfaced again, but now it was moving very slowly, as if exhausted after that one gigantic leap. In fact, it seemed to be in trouble - even in agony; it was beating its tail against the sea, without attempting to move in any definite direction. Suddenly, it vomited its last meal, turned belly up, and lay wallowing lifelessly in the gentle swell. 'Oh my God,' whispered the Captain, his voice full of revulsion. 'I think I know what's happened.' 'Totally alien biochemistries,' said the doctor; even he seemed shaken by the sight. 'Rosie's claimed one victim, after all.' The Sea of Galilee was

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#52
Some scientists in the Manhattan Project worried that the first nuclear test could trigger a chain reaction that would annihilate the earth.

These fears were unfounded.

(Granted, atmospheric nuclear weapons testing has its own set of subtle consequences that are gradually becoming more well known.)

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#53
post #52

Some scientists in the Manhattan Project worried that the first nuclear test could trigger a chain reaction that would annihilate the earth. These fears were unfounded. (Granted, atmospheric nuclear weapons testing has its own set of subtle consequences that are gradually becoming more well known.)

But that's just one example of scientists warning about something and being wrong; it's just an anecdote that you can't draw much from.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#54

How does a research ban even work? It seems to me that at some point someone is going to research it; at which point everyone is left flat footed by having not researched it.

> How does a research ban even work? It seems to me that at some point someone is going to research it;

This is a function of how easy it is to do the banned thing, how easy it is to detect when it is being researched and what are the benefits of researching it.

Imagine as an example that we live in a world where there are no firearms, and we decide to ban their research and development. All three factors would be against the ban. It is relatively easy to make primitive firearms (all you need is metal working tools). It is hard to detect when someone is doing it (they can keep their firearms secret, and the tools and activity disguised as something else) and the firearm once developed will be of great benefit to whoever developed it.

So a blanket ban against firearms would be unstable. It wouldn't work.

Let's look at an other example. Nuclear weapons. They are much harder to create (you need a whole industrial project to develop the tech, lot of engineers, and lot of energy consuming processes), there are pre-cursor technologies you can monitor to have an early warning (uranium enrichment, centrifuges, etc), it doesn't have immediate benefits unless you also develop a reliable delivery mechanism for it.

And these are the factors while nuclear weapons don't proliferate everywhere. You can't buy them in the mall, smaller countries don't have them etc.

I don't know what the answer to these questions are for "mirror life" but the framework is the same.

How hard is to develop it? If a single dude in a shed can do it, there is probably no point banning it. It will happen sooner than later. If it requires coordinated effort from multiple research groups and industrial partners, then a ban might work.

How hard is detect when someone is developing it? Can they hide it? Is the process using common materials and equipment? Do they need to get stuff only people who develop mirror life would need?

But the final question is the most important: What do they win? If there is some military benefit to developing "mirror life" then we are lost, and it will be developed. If there is some big economic benefit a ban might work, but it will be an uphill battle. If there is no benefit to it, and it is just cool and interesting to do, it will be a lot simpler for a ban to hold.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#55
post #52

Some scientists in the Manhattan Project worried that the first nuclear test could trigger a chain reaction that would annihilate the earth. These fears were unfounded. (Granted, atmospheric nuclear weapons testing has its own set of subtle consequences that are gradually becoming more well known.)

Conversely, Great Filter.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#56
post #52

Some scientists in the Manhattan Project worried that the first nuclear test could trigger a chain reaction that would annihilate the earth. These fears were unfounded. (Granted, atmospheric nuclear weapons testing has its own set of subtle consequences that are gradually becoming more well known.)

No, they calculated the likelihood of this as being acceptably low. Are you criticising that they checked?

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#57
post #39
post #24

Basic biochemistry question (you can tell what I didn't study in uni) Is it possible to mix chirality in, say, a protein? I.e. have a portion of one chirality and another of the other?

You can make these things in a lab. However Phind said "In summary, while scientists have proposed various models for how biological homochirality may have emerged, there is currently no known example of mixed protein chirality occurring in nature. Biological molecules appear to exhibit almost exclusive homochirality at the molecular level."

It makes sense, I guess. Why would something natural want to interact with both chiralities of a target? Usually there's a reason for one... and the other is unrelated.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#58

How does a research ban even work? It seems to me that at some point someone is going to research it; at which point everyone is left flat footed by having not researched it.

We don’t research what happens when a child falls out of a plane and nobody feels like we’re falling behind for it.

We actually did, it's a solved problem.

Research bans do not inherently work.

Treaties need enforced, and the Streisand effect and arms-race dynamic play into the game theory as well.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#59
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Environmental collapse due to climate change is way, way more likely than any of those.

And Nuclear incidents caused by climate/ai extremists are way more likely than those. Environmental collapse is a convenient, very portable goalpost though.

Lol, no activist is going to cause a nuclear event. It's just easier to accept that than the fact that we're ruining the biosphere.

Re: Mirror bacteria research poses significant risks, scientists warn

#60
post #52

Some scientists in the Manhattan Project worried that the first nuclear test could trigger a chain reaction that would annihilate the earth. These fears were unfounded. (Granted, atmospheric nuclear weapons testing has its own set of subtle consequences that are gradually becoming more well known.)

I don't quite understand the meaning of your comment, it reads to me like "one time people worried about something but their worries were unfounded" with the subtext/implication that "therefore we don't need to worry" - about this? Or maybe need to worry in general? Or is it just to feel a bit more optimism that not every doomsday fear ends up coming to fruition?
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