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Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

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Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#51

Post by DiscourseFan »

unscaled wrote: post #37
kjellsbells wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about mathematically rigorous "proof", but a powerful theory of grammar at least. His claim is "true" in the sense of computation, ie the lowest level Chomsky grammar[1] is just like a Turing machine and consequently can generate anything. But the analogy with computing languages also supplies a practical insight that isnt captured by the academic theory, ie that some concepts are easier to express in one la…

I think Chomsky's theories became popular in anglophone linguistic circles (and later in the rest of the world) because their math-like structure and close applicability to computer science. They've proven to be useful in some cases, but there has been no proof of a universal grammar. The fact that you can create a formal system to represent an idea, is not a proof by any stretch of that definition. This is why some…

Well, the real issue with Chomsky is that he came into vogue during the “linguistic” turn, except he misunderstood the anglo philosophers, thinking their theories had a natural basis, and misunderstood the french, thinking that their studies of writing and discourse made them philosophers of language. But the Kantian project still stands, one must have an architectonic, before one can make a scientific approach. But Kant was always sure to set his critical project within its dialectic, and placed the basis of cognition below language and discourse. That is what the French were able to capture, and its why contemporary philosophy today is so suffuse with discourses on aesthetics (though I’m being a bit broad with what I refer to as “Philosophy,” perhaps it’d be better to say “philosophical work”).

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#52

Post by rramadass »

DiscourseFan wrote: post #50
rramadass wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very True. This is particularly true when one translates/studies philosophical texts where there are lots of abstract concepts to interpret and more often than not if one doesn't understand the culture and everything it entails, one will make a mess of it. > In learning a language, you internalize that culture and, even if just a tiny bit, develop an identity as a member of that culture. This actually explains how In…

Indian philosophy is not translingual though, its all written in one language, Sanskrit, and translated from that language. If anything, Indian philosophy demonstrates hierarchal dominance in its cultural context.

That is not quite true.

It so happened that much of what has survived under the rubric "Hinduism" (itself an umbrella term for a whole gamut of philosophies, religious beliefs, rituals etc. and everything in between) has been through Sanskrit texts. It does not mean that all the concepts/ideas originated in that language domain. This is why you have the many schools of Hindu Philosophy categorized as orthodox (six recognized) vs. unorthodox (three recognized) and there are still more schools (notably many Tantric philosophies) not recognized under either of the above categories. Given the bewildering diversity of languages in the Indian Subcontinent it is almost certain that Sanskrit texts recast/reformulated philosophies/concepts/ideas from other languages (eg. Tamil and Sanskrit).

The situation is analogous to what happened after the Scientific Revolution where knowledge from German/French/Other European languages got disseminated via the English language through colonialism to the wider world.

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#53

Post by anal_reactor »

DiscourseFan wrote: post #49
anal_reactor wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is that I love languages but I hate people, which makes me completely half-ass the learning process by detaching the language from the culture.

Its more likely that you hate what you see in people than the people themselves.

How is that different?

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#54

Post by ted_bunny »

Tor3 wrote: post #42
unscaled wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman Jakobson (probably one of the most important linguists of the 20th century) has famously said: "Languages essentially differ essentially in what they must convey and not in what they can convey". I think this sums up the weak version of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis quite well. The strong version of the hypothesis claims that monolingual speakers of a certain language find it hard to think of concepts that cannot…

>That pretty clearly forces every Guugu Yimithirr speaker to have to be constantly aware of the compass directions so they can clearly point at things, it's quite unsurprising that they are very good in instinctively knowing where the north is without a compass. Apparently you can't even greet someone unless you know the cardinal directions - an article I read in New Scientist claimed that a greeting is essentially t…

I saw a product that claims to train this skill. An anklet that vibrates periodically in the direction of north. No idea if it works.

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#55

Post by ted_bunny »

gyomu wrote: post #32
sureIy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_(sociolinguistics) Formal: "I would like to express my deepest gratitude for your invaluable assistance in this matter." Neutral: "Thank you so much for your help with this." Slang: "Thanks bro"

Ironic disdain: "I would like to express my deepest gratitude for your invaluable assistance in this matter."

"You've shown a complete lack of poor judgment. I have no confidence in your ability to screw things up. You are incompetent as a failure. You are at the very rock bottom of your future potential."

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#56

Post by ted_bunny »

calimoro78 wrote: post #18
FredPret wrote: post #12

I learned English and honestly the only thing that happened was my life got 100 times better socially and professionally. My thinking is exactly the same. The only cognitive skills I've noticed improving is my ability to play word games and figure out simple phrases in third languages when traveling, because I have two languages to reference when thinking about word origins and relationships.

Maybe English is not a mind-opening language :(

Look at how English treats time as money. You save, invest, spend, waste it. There are plenty of these things out there, but they're subtle.

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#57

Post by laurent_du »

JoeDaDude wrote: post #5

I'm sure language learners all over have felt this way. Once one starts learning another tongue, one realizes that languages do not exist in isolation, they are part of a larger culture and the language comes with customs, traditions, norms, and even beliefs from that culture. In learning a language, you internalize that culture and, even if just a tiny bit, develop an identity as a member of that culture. Phoenix Ho…

I speak three languages on top of my own native language and never felt that way at all. In my opinion it's just a weird idea coming from people who like to overthink things.

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#58

Post by npteljes »

anal_reactor wrote: post #53
DiscourseFan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its more likely that you hate what you see in people than the people themselves.

How is that different?

By the feeling, it's the same. But it's an important distinction. You cannot change "the people", but you can change yourself. And that is very different. In the first, you are subservient of something much larger than you, and the second is a world of possibilities. Turning your thinking around enables you to have your best possible experience of your own life - or so they say.

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#59

Post by xtiansimon »

gyomu wrote: post #32
sureIy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_(sociolinguistics) Formal: "I would like to express my deepest gratitude for your invaluable assistance in this matter." Neutral: "Thank you so much for your help with this." Slang: "Thanks bro"

Ironic disdain: "I would like to express my deepest gratitude for your invaluable assistance in this matter."

Yep. Or the phone customer support version, “I would like to express my deepest gratitude for you permitting me to help you in this matter…”

Re: Learning Tibetan changed the way I think (2023)

#60

Post by anal_reactor »

npteljes wrote: post #58
anal_reactor wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that different?

By the feeling, it's the same. But it's an important distinction. You cannot change "the people", but you can change yourself. And that is very different. In the first, you are subservient of something much larger than you, and the second is a world of possibilities. Turning your thinking around enables you to have your best possible experience of your own life - or so they say.

> In the first, you are subservient of something much larger than you, and the second is a world of possibilities.

The latter is a much more grim perspective. What it means is that, if you've been putting all your effort, all your effort is still not enough, and you objectively suck and you will never stop being useless trash. But if you consider people as an unpredictable, unstoppable force, then it's much easier to accept, and just make your way around it. Like weather. It really sucks when I want to go out but then exactly at this moment a huge storm breaks out, but there's nothing I can do about it, so I'd better adjust my life to the fact that weather sometimes sucks and that's it. While I could've planned for bad weather, at its core the fact that weather sometimes sucks is not my fault and there's nothing I can do about it.

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