[flagged]
That crosses unduly into personal attack, even by the monumentally low standard of this topic. Please don't break HN's guidelines like this. You may not owe CEO egos better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.
WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
51–60 of 67 posts
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#52[flagged]
>it is about time for an Ayahuasca retreat
There's a non-zero chance he might have got one-shotted by Ayahuasca setting all this off.
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#53What's the legal basis for granting the injuction? Also what's WP Engine's legal basis for their counter suit? Isn't it Automattic's business? Can't they refuse to do business with someone if they want?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42382829 links the paperwork including a PDF discussing that
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#54"In October, Mullenweg announced that he’d given Automattic employees a buyout package, and 159 employees, or roughly 8.4 percent of staff, took the offer. “I feel much lighter,” he wrote. But shortly after, he reportedly complained that the company was now “very short staffed.”" The jokes write themselves.
He then offered another buyout package with even more generous terms, with like a 4 hour period to accept it. People did, and then he said "yeah, um, we're gonna ask you to say on indefinitely because we're really short staffed"
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#55Curiously, in an old tweet Matt praises the openness of the web[1]. I guess this is in response to the bans elsewhere (twitter?); but still, Wordpress was positioned as an open alternative. At the moment I feel uncertain about Wordpress and its status. Are there any plans to bring more stability here? Of all the tech CEOs to get humbled in 2024, why did it have to be one from an open source project? [1]: https://x.co…
> Of all the tech CEOs to get humbled in 2024, why did it have to be one from an open source project?
He, by his own account, went 'scorched earth'/overreached as a result of his ignorance with licensing (either true or demonstrative).
Any marks on his back, he put there. Open source will genuinely be better off without people like him co-opting it. WordPress may be forked (won't be the first time, there's currently 12.6k)
I'm wildly interested to see where this all goes. Where does Matt/WordPress.(org|com)/the Foundation end?
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#56Curiously, in an old tweet Matt praises the openness of the web[1]. I guess this is in response to the bans elsewhere (twitter?); but still, Wordpress was positioned as an open alternative. At the moment I feel uncertain about Wordpress and its status. Are there any plans to bring more stability here? Of all the tech CEOs to get humbled in 2024, why did it have to be one from an open source project? [1]: https://x.co…
> Of all the tech CEOs to get humbled in 2024, why did it have to be one from an open source project? He, by his own account, went 'scorched earth'/overreached as a result of his ignorance with licensing (either true or demonstrative) . Any marks on his back, he put there. Open source will genuinely be better off without people like him co-opting it. WordPress may be forked (won't be the first time, there's currently…
To be clear, I am not defending this particular ceo, I only wish better for open source projects and Wordpress in particular.
Off topic, as someone prone to overreacting I have a lot of compassion towards Matt. At the same time it was his choice to attack the other party so actively and I wouldn’t try to excuse that.
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Of all the tech CEOs to get humbled in 2024, why did it have to be one from an open source project? He, by his own account, went 'scorched earth'/overreached as a result of his ignorance with licensing (either true or demonstrative) . Any marks on his back, he put there. Open source will genuinely be better off without people like him co-opting it. WordPress may be forked (won't be the first time, there's currently…
To be clear, I am not defending this particular ceo, I only wish better for open source projects and Wordpress in particular. Off topic, as someone prone to overreacting I have a lot of compassion towards Matt. At the same time it was his choice to attack the other party so actively and I wouldn’t try to excuse that.
I agree! Apologies if my post is abrasive. I wish better for Matt, in particular, as well. Despite his actions, I hope better for him too. Not just OSS or specifically WordPress.
With any good lie there's a nugget of truth. I do get the sense that Matt cares about these principles... my criticism is 'just' that they've been to mislead.
The guy tried to take an emotional argument he was having with himself to court. That works with the public, less so with a judge. Especially when documenting your rage/material impact at such depth.
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#58What's the legal basis for granting the injuction? Also what's WP Engine's legal basis for their counter suit? Isn't it Automattic's business? Can't they refuse to do business with someone if they want?
My memory of listening to a real attorney discuss this [1]
WP Engine showed they will be irreparably harmed, which in this case, means harmed in a way that cash can't fix. Thus the judge is preserving the status quo ante while the suit is worked out. (see 31:52 [1]).
edit: requires
1. likelihood (not more likely than not to win, but must show a decent chance);
2. w/o relief, will suffer irreparable harm (as discussed above: can't fix w/ money)
3. balance of equities favors you (more fair to freeze);
4. public interest supports injunction
3 - 4 are, per Mike, fuzzy and "result driven". The most critical factors are success and harm.
Separately, there is a thing called "Promissory estoppel" where, even though you don't have a contract, you make a promise (Matt: wp.org is free forever to anyone), someone (WP Engine) relies on that promise to their detriment, and the plaintiff's reliance on that promise was reasonable. Discussion of promissory estoppel at 44:17 in [1]
[1] A discussion by attorney Mike Dunford, or so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdwiZEhRS3o
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But acting like he's benefiting from other people's free labour just shows you've never paid attention to the development of WordPress. Is Matt responsible, financially, for a large portion of WP development? Yes. Is he benefitting from free labor from OS contributors? Yes. Is the WP ecosystem enriched as a whole by commercial and OS contributors? Yes.
There is this whole issue - which plays into the dispute in multiple ways - that treats Matt, Automattic, WordPress, wordpress.org, wordpress.com, WordPress Foundation, as essentially interchangeable and synonymous. That's part of the problem. This lawsuit is between two for-profit companies, Automattic and WPE. Automattic has investors and revenue streams. As does WPE. This isn't "Matt is financially responsible for…
Your statement further highlights the issues actually. Matt owns, outright, wordpress.org and uses resources from Automattic to manage wordpress.org. One avenue this slap fight has taken is via Matt blocking WPEngine from wordpress.org. Matt, not Automattic. The WP Foundation is a thin veneer around Matt as well. There are a bunch more oddities in this whole thing if you care to look into it.
IMHO, Matt needs to step back from this whole thing and let the lawyers work out the dispute without his emotions clouding things. He also needs to clear up ownership of wordpress.org, ideally by transferring it to the WPF. And finally, he should step down from his role at the WPF to help it become a foundation independent of control from Automattic. He's proven to be an unstable steward of the WP ecosystem at this point and lost trust is hard to regain.
I make all of these statement as someone not connected to the WP ecosystem beyond sometimes helping a friend who leverages WP for his clients.
Re: WordPress CEO quits community Slack after court injunction
#60The most worrying thing is that Mullenweg just seems unwell and has created his own reality distortion field where he can no longer see the absurdness and damaging nature of his actions. His behavior reminds me of a cult leader or a celebrity where they surround themselves with only people who do their bidding and gradually slip into this state.
I agree, this seems like it's veering from "angry rich person wants thing" into "petulant child throws a fit when they don't get thing." At least Wordpress is open source - if it disappears, something can take its place.
I don't see much difference, except the angry rich person can afford to throw the fit ahead of time.