Exotic new superconductors delight and confound • Hacker News Board

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#51

Post by cyberax » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 7:12 AM UTC

FredFS456 wrote: post #35

throwup238 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cuprates are also brittle ceramics so they’re difficult to shape and larger pieces and assemblies tend to run into issues with grain boundaries that interfere with superconductivity, so there’s a lot of practical issues. The classic superconductors are very low temperature but are much easier to cast.

There's a few fusion startup companies using superconducting ReBCO tape to make their magnets. From the results that they're getting, I think we've largely cracked the engineering problems of making "wire" from ReBCO and it's largely just a scaling game now. I do want to point out that they're still cooling with liquid hydrogen at ~20K for high current capacity though.

I invested in a couple of fusion startups (because why the hell not?), and the word on the street is that flexible tapes/wires are still not a solved question. Nobody can make them with consistent quality in large enough batches.

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#52

Post by popol12 » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:13 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #22

dtquad wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most valuable applications it is also "good enough" to find a superconductor that can be cooled with cheap liquid nitrogen and retain the magnetic field tolerance, current-carrying capacity, and thermal stability of a superconductor cooled with expensive liquid helium. Some so-called "high temperature" superconductors begin superconducting at liquid-nitrogen temperature or higher. However in real life applica…

Mechanical properties are very important, too. Able to bend, able to be cut, able to withstand mild shocks and vibration without fracturing. Something you can make actual wires from, at least at some stage. This, superconducting at liquid nitrogen temperature, would produce a revolution. Transmission lines alone would be huge.

How would we cool transmission lines to liquid nitrogen temperature?

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#53

Post by poincaredisk » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 10:51 AM UTC

spullara wrote: post #49

I wish all the smart physicists were working on this instead of string theory.

Why not both? We need people working on moonshots in hope of a breakthrough that will leap us forward. Even if, in case of string theory, we probably both agree that the chance is slim at this point (but I'm not a physicist, so nobody asked my opinion and nobody should listen to it).

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#54

Post by bawolff » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 11:31 AM UTC

zardo wrote: post #14

metalman wrote: post #13

room temperature superconductors are inevitable, all matter is conductive and photo active in some way or another,and conduction is one of the non optional components of reality, so the number of possible compounds that might superconduct is huge and now that there apear to be multiple mechanisms that superconduction can function from, means that the search will begin in earnist its a multi trillion dollar app

Is a 400C superconductor also inevitable?

Given enough pressure it already exists!

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#55

Post by saagarjha » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 11:59 AM UTC

dtgriscom wrote: post #16

dtquad wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most valuable applications it is also "good enough" to find a superconductor that can be cooled with cheap liquid nitrogen and retain the magnetic field tolerance, current-carrying capacity, and thermal stability of a superconductor cooled with expensive liquid helium. Some so-called "high temperature" superconductors begin superconducting at liquid-nitrogen temperature or higher. However in real life applica…

Data point: liquid nitrogen is cheaper than milk.

I mean it’s literally selling air :P

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#56

Post by Ygg2 » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 12:27 PM UTC

jmward01 wrote: post #2

The great thing about watching advances in superconductors is that any day we could discover the first true practical room temp superconductor and that one day changes the world immensely. I personally think we are likely to find one in the next 5-10 years, but that estimate is based on nothing but hope and optimism on my part.

I don't think we'll really see a superconductor that ticks all the boxes.

Reality is too noisy for such effects to take hold. If there was I think evolution would have already used it by now.

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#57

Post by fuzzfactor » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

NullHypothesist wrote: post #3

jmward01 wrote: post #2

The great thing about watching advances in superconductors is that any day we could discover the first true practical room temp superconductor and that one day changes the world immensely. I personally think we are likely to find one in the next 5-10 years, but that estimate is based on nothing but hope and optimism on my part.

Better scientific understanding of the underlying process (as highlighted by this article), better pattern detection (AI), and better simulation capabilities (quantum computing) all point to accelerating progress on this front. What makes me particularly optimistic is the wide range of scenarios in which superconductivity is observed (also highlighted in the article); different mechanisms leading to a similar result…

From the final paragraph:

_experimentalists are still the ones leading the way. “Everyone’s rushing as fast as they can,” Yankowitz said._

In my experience, the final line is what contributes to my optimism most:

_“I can’t believe that we’re six years in and you can’t take a break.”_

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#58

Post by OhioMan2943 » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 1:48 PM UTC

jmward01 wrote: post #2

The great thing about watching advances in superconductors is that any day we could discover the first true practical room temp superconductor and that one day changes the world immensely. I personally think we are likely to find one in the next 5-10 years, but that estimate is based on nothing but hope and optimism on my part.

I don't think we need more change right now. We're struggling to make a healthy society with meaning with the leaps in technology of the past 15 years in ML and computing and manufacturing power/ actual power

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#59

Post by halflife » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 2:26 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #34

nomel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who knows nothing about this, how is something like "Tungsten disulfide/boron nitride" selected? Is it based on some models? Or, is it more of a random walk?

They are choosing from a subset of materials that can form stable 2D crystals in order to test effects of relative twist angles on their energy bands.

Are 2d crystals the depth of 1 molecule?

Re: Exotic new superconductors delight and confound

#60

Post by jmyeet » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #22

dtquad wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most valuable applications it is also "good enough" to find a superconductor that can be cooled with cheap liquid nitrogen and retain the magnetic field tolerance, current-carrying capacity, and thermal stability of a superconductor cooled with expensive liquid helium. Some so-called "high temperature" superconductors begin superconducting at liquid-nitrogen temperature or higher. However in real life applica…

Mechanical properties are very important, too. Able to bend, able to be cut, able to withstand mild shocks and vibration without fracturing. Something you can make actual wires from, at least at some stage. This, superconducting at liquid nitrogen temperature, would produce a revolution. Transmission lines alone would be huge.

> Transmission lines alone would be huge.

Transmission lines are a great example of competing demands. Copper is a better conductor so why do we use aluminium? Because of weight. And weight is a huge factor in supporting large cables over long distances.

Metals are also ductile, which is important for a cable to hang in gravity under its own weight, be moved by the wind and so on. Assumedly exotic crystals wouldn't have this property. Even if they could, what would the weight be? Would the cross-section need to be much larger? Particular to this family of superconductors, tungsten isn't exactly the easiest thing to do deal with, particularly on a massive scale.

There's an interesting Reddit thread about this topic [1]. One issue it raises is we'd need to essentiaally rebuild our entire infrastructure and transformers are a big part of that.

Personally, I think energy is going to get an awful lot more local. Solar is our future (IMHO). The ability to store excess power generated during the day and then use it when it's dark or cloudy will obviate the need to expensive long-line transmission infrasturcture from distant power plants.

Lastly, the GP is correct: liquid nitrogen is incredibly cheap. It's basically the cost of drinking water. Getting something we could use at liquid nitrogen cooling temperatures would be incredibly impactful.

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskPhysics/comments/12etlkr/wouldnt...