Can't Driven Development • Hacker News Board

Re: Can't Driven Development

#51

Post by rmanolis » Sat, Dec 07, 2024, 5:34 AM UTC

tharkun__ wrote: post #49

rmanolis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you don't need to just log and return 500, you can make the software to handle these kind of errors. You could make the software call the system administrator and return a message to the user "Try again in an hour, the system administrator is fixing it now" Or if it is a timeout, the software will call amazon to buy a new machine to scale the database and send a message to the user "Try again in an hour until we…

you can make the software to handle these kind of errors. No you can not do this in all cases and I described multiple cases in my comment already in which you can't reasonably do anything automatic. Let me explain. You could make the software call the system administrator But why would I do that for every `StatementTimeoutException` at every moment of the night and why do I need to bake that into my error handling?…

System administrators are paid to wake up at night to fix things.

Ask your boss, "do you want your users wait until the next morning for the system administrator to wake up and fix the issue? Or do you want the software inform the user how long it will take to fix the issue in seconds and start calling the system administrator to wake up and fix it?"

Because you answer based on your preferences as a worker who wants to avoid the extra work to make the system perfect and not your boss's preferences.

Re: Can't Driven Development

#52

Post by rmanolis » Sat, Dec 07, 2024, 5:44 AM UTC

tharkun__ wrote: post #50

rmanolis wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “while doing it” does not work if you don't have experience with similar language. If you don't believe me, try learning Rust while writing a server for your work. Tickets are useless. Real tickets are unit tests that need to pass for the software to be ready for production. Tickets cannot protect you, only Odin's switch statement on stack trace can protect developers from bad changes. I will give you an example,…

The “while doing it” does not work if you don't have experience with similar language. If you don't believe me, try learning Rust while writing a server for your work. I can't try that unfortunately. I have tried to push trying Rust "for whatever next service we need" but nobody took me up on it :shrug:. That said, yes, many moons ago, probably about 25 years actually, I did have a job that paid me to learn how to wr…

You expand your knowledge in useless things like design patterns and frameworks. Odin will make this type of knowledge useless.

Making simple tickets to epic shows that the company does not have a software architecturer. It means that you create a monster application with full of technical debts left by junior. If CDD used in your company, nobody would ever be able to replace a ticket with an epic, because the architecturer would show you from where to start and what steps to take.

Re: Can't Driven Development

#53

Post by tharkun__ » Sat, Dec 07, 2024, 1:55 PM UTC

rmanolis wrote: post #51

tharkun__ wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can make the software to handle these kind of errors. No you can not do this in all cases and I described multiple cases in my comment already in which you can't reasonably do anything automatic. Let me explain. You could make the software call the system administrator But why would I do that for every `StatementTimeoutException` at every moment of the night and why do I need to bake that into my error handling?…

System administrators are paid to wake up at night to fix things. Ask your boss, "do you want your users wait until the next morning for the system administrator to wake up and fix the issue? Or do you want the software inform the user how long it will take to fix the issue in seconds and start calling the system administrator to wake up and fix it?" Because you answer based on your preferences as a worker who wants…

I guess that settles it. You are conveniently ignoring the cases I described in which it makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever for your software to do anything about this.

And yes, there's an on-call person that does get paged when something happens that likely needs immediate attention. A page for every single time there's any error? Not bloody likely mate.

To pick up your last point: My boss is not in the business of paying for you, who will spend countless extra days building useless error "handling" for stuff that has already been handled and who is trying to get out of the responsibility of writing resilient software by paging someone else to "pick up the tab".

A "boss" never wants to pay for a perfect system. That would take way too long and nobody has figured out how to actually build that anyway (no, Odin is not the answer). They want to pay for the "slightly less than good enough" system, because that's cheaper and still gets the job done. And especially when I hear you talk here, I'm with them: Perfect is the enemy of good enough. We just have to ensure that it really is good enough and not less (coz many a boss will happily take way less than good enough if it gets them to market faster.

Re: Can't Driven Development

#54

Post by tharkun__ » Sat, Dec 07, 2024, 2:00 PM UTC

rmanolis wrote: post #52

tharkun__ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “while doing it” does not work if you don't have experience with similar language. If you don't believe me, try learning Rust while writing a server for your work. I can't try that unfortunately. I have tried to push trying Rust "for whatever next service we need" but nobody took me up on it :shrug:. That said, yes, many moons ago, probably about 25 years actually, I did have a job that paid me to learn how to wr…

You expand your knowledge in useless things like design patterns and frameworks. Odin will make this type of knowledge useless. Making simple tickets to epic shows that the company does not have a software architecturer. It means that you create a monster application with full of technical debts left by junior. If CDD used in your company, nobody would ever be able to replace a ticket with an epic, because the archit…

This really is something else. Now you are also a psychic. That's it. I'm out of here but feel free to keep living your dream with Odin. I'll stay here in the real world.