Live data from Hacker News

Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

linus.coffee

51–60 of 86 posts

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#51
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is 15 years ago, programming was nearly everyone's passion for those that were in the field. There were very few "job" type programmers. Not the case today.

I’d say the same thing except about 25-30 years ago and definitely not 15, which suggests to me that both of us suffer from observer bias and likely there’s always been a real mix of programmers who were really into it and others who were only after a job. Perhaps the proportion of uninterested programmers has increased though.

A lot of people heard there is money in programming so they did the bare minimum and landed a job.

The managers who hired them were not complete idiots, mind you. They knew what they were getting but they are playing their own games: they need the bigger head-count, they want to hire their cousin to oversee these sub-par programmers, they want to be seen as professional when they inevitably have to ask for external consulting when their underlings crap the bed on a regular basis, etc.

But it's mostly power play, I found, almost on a sexual kink level. A lot of people in power out there will hire you if you are meek and can't stand up for yourself. Really weird.

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#52
post #45

A word of caution for highly intelligent but otherwise regular (not well connected) people. The software industry is the most manipulated industry on the planet and in human history. If you work on any significant, high exposure project, be prepared for unimaginable political f***ery. It's also one of the least meritocratic industries in existence because most big companies have monopolies and can afford to be extrem…

> You don't want to know what happens to those who got trapped in this industry, got their passion for coding completely beaten out of them and can't find any off-ramp. I want to know. What happens to them?

You hate your life and see no way out. What else?

That this comes with an ugly bouquet full of mental and physical health problems is another topic entirely, and that can fill 10 tomes of books though.

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#53
post #42
post #39

Programming is so different than software engineering, to the point some people (like me) love the former but little by little are starting to hate the latter. Learning for the sake of learning, being able to be picky about what to learn, feeling like a god by creating your own worlds, trial and error… these are all traits of programming. On the other hand, software engineering is about sprints, useless deadlines, us…

That's somewhat arbitrary, don't you think? I think of "programming" as just writing code, "engineering" is coming up with what to code. Rather, this is about capitalism. You want more freedom in going about your business. You cannot have that in a profit-oriented company. (Rare exceptions apply.) We're so focused on delivering, what we deliver becomes less of a concern, even though it should be the number 1 concern.…

> Rather, this is about capitalism

Well, its about what you measure.

A solution oriented programmer can have the best business goals in mind by not half assing a hotfix but proposing a full new featue with large budget demands.

Some managers respect and care about good software but may need to compromise on budget cuts from higher up.

I have seen it so many times.

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#54
post #45

A word of caution for highly intelligent but otherwise regular (not well connected) people. The software industry is the most manipulated industry on the planet and in human history. If you work on any significant, high exposure project, be prepared for unimaginable political f***ery. It's also one of the least meritocratic industries in existence because most big companies have monopolies and can afford to be extrem…

> You don't want to know what happens to those who got trapped in this industry, got their passion for coding completely beaten out of them and can't find any off-ramp. I want to know. What happens to them?

Burnout babyy. You lose the joy in life and become a cynical gremlin full of spite. Or develop substance abuse habits or any other myriad coping strategies

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#55
post #3

Since the article jumps around a lot, let me add one more; Software is an amazing passion, but a terrible job. Imagine you love music, play the piano for hours every day, then once you grow up someone pays you a huge salary just to play. You're in heaven. Now imagine someone who loves classical music, but can't play. You see the fortunes being made by piano players, so you decide to learn. Which takes years of doing…

> Software is an amazing passion, but a terrible job.

Very well said! And it is all the Software Industry's fault.

When i look back at the noob me decades ago, i see a young'un full of energy, enthusiasm, curiosity and a hunger to learn anything and everything, knowledge for knowledge's sake, to prove oneself to the world and in general a would-be World Conqueror.

So what happened in the subsequent decades that lead to the current cynical fuddy-duddy? The battle in the trenches of "Software Industry" happened. The battlefield was stacked against him in every way possible, viz; He was told Knowledge acquisition without a Business Goal/Money was worthless, People clearly unqualified in the domain were appointed as his Managers and gave orders, His curiosity was curtailed, He was subject to inane and brain-dead management processes, His self-worth was actively diminished by denying his uniqueness and being explicitly treated as a mere inconsequential cog-in-the-wheel etc. etc.

So the grizzled veteran retreated from the battlefield, worked on getting back that "original beginner mindset", rekindle the passion, and vowing to never again allow himself to be put in such a situation even though he might be poorer for it.

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#57
post #45

A word of caution for highly intelligent but otherwise regular (not well connected) people. The software industry is the most manipulated industry on the planet and in human history. If you work on any significant, high exposure project, be prepared for unimaginable political f***ery. It's also one of the least meritocratic industries in existence because most big companies have monopolies and can afford to be extrem…

> You don't want to know what happens to those who got trapped in this industry, got their passion for coding completely beaten out of them and can't find any off-ramp. I want to know. What happens to them?

A sense of negativity, cynicism and defeatism starts defining their outlook and colours everything in their life.

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#58
post #11
post #3

Since the article jumps around a lot, let me add one more; Software is an amazing passion, but a terrible job. Imagine you love music, play the piano for hours every day, then once you grow up someone pays you a huge salary just to play. You're in heaven. Now imagine someone who loves classical music, but can't play. You see the fortunes being made by piano players, so you decide to learn. Which takes years of doing…

Your comment resonates with me a lot. I have a passion for programming, as evidenced by my website. I have a history of jobs that pay well (as far as Canada goes). But every job has been rather boring and have not been a good fit for my skills. Instead of doing deep technical work, I get to deal with ever-shifting requirements, poor communication, and almost nonexistent project management.

I feel similarly.

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#59

A word of caution for highly intelligent but otherwise regular (not well connected) people. The software industry is the most manipulated industry on the planet and in human history. If you work on any significant, high exposure project, be prepared for unimaginable political f***ery. It's also one of the least meritocratic industries in existence because most big companies have monopolies and can afford to be extrem…

Huh. I enjoy my job at a big tech company. And I enjoy coding. I don't have deep social connections to the industry or intelligence agencies.

In the past I worked at a factory for a short amount of time, and did not enjoy it. I also worked for a short time in academia (basically an internship), and while better than the factory, I didn't like it as much as my current job.

Re: Thoughts on the software industry (2022)

#60
post #39

Programming is so different than software engineering, to the point some people (like me) love the former but little by little are starting to hate the latter. Learning for the sake of learning, being able to be picky about what to learn, feeling like a god by creating your own worlds, trial and error… these are all traits of programming. On the other hand, software engineering is about sprints, useless deadlines, us…

> On the other hand, software engineering is about sprints, useless deadlines, using the wrong tool for the job, writing code to increase shareholders value, high-performing-team obsession, useless C-level execs, broken tech interviews… That is not at all what "Software Engineering" is. It is Management's view and practice of what it should be based on the fad of the month/year, simplistic efficiency/productivity mod…

Barry Boehm is the epitome of the process-obsessed, elegance-hating middle manager
Post reply on HN