Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh c'mon, I gotta ask - what word? :)
NipAlert, if you count that as a word, haha
Gotta admit that makes total sense.
The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
51–59 of 59 posts
Re: The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is that? Monoculture I assume? Everyone works in tech so you never meet interesting people who work in completely different fields?
It's something else that I can't easily explain. I'm a remote SWE now, and I go to a local office I'm not assigned to. Just in that tech circle, I have way more friends at work here than I did in Silicon Valley, where I saw my team and department each day in-office. I was just as friendly and outgoing in both places, and similar place in my life (married). There are a lot of good things about living in Silicon Valley…
The problems are roughly:
- Monoculture
- Generally risk-averse and cliquish population whose primary concern is (understandably) survival and accumulating the money needed to live a normal middle class life and are drawn to the “peaceful” atmosphere of the region (a word you’ll hear especially frequently)
- Terrible urban planning and poor density for socialization: sprawling suburbia, lifeless downtown cores, everyone is far away from each other and as a result of the grueling commutes, few are willing to spontaneously hang out after work
It’s a toxic mix that leads to a social death spiral.
Re: The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
#53There are obvious exceptions to everything. But I’ve lived in Atlanta, Orlando, SF and Seattle. Moving to SF was a career multiplier. I instantly doubled my salary. Now, I’m earning 2-5x more than my peers (that were more senior than me) that chose to live in those cities. Walmart was started in Arkansas. Warren Buffet famously lives in Nebraska. But the Tier 1 cities create more wealth for more people than Tier 2 or…
How much more are you spending (on non-avoidable cost of living stuff) now that you live in SF, though? If I hypothetically doubled my salary _and_ my expenses, that hardly seems worth it. Although NorCal is gorgeous.
In Atlanta, I earned $70k/yr ($4k/mo after taxes). I saved about $2k/mo
When I moved to SF, I earned $130k/yr ($6k/mo after taxes). I saved about $3k/mo
You can't expect the same quality of life as you did in the lower cost cities, but it is much easier to save way more money when you have a high income, than a low income.
Re: The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
#54There are obvious exceptions to everything. But I’ve lived in Atlanta, Orlando, SF and Seattle. Moving to SF was a career multiplier. I instantly doubled my salary. Now, I’m earning 2-5x more than my peers (that were more senior than me) that chose to live in those cities. Walmart was started in Arkansas. Warren Buffet famously lives in Nebraska. But the Tier 1 cities create more wealth for more people than Tier 2 or…
>Now, I’m earning 2-5x more than my peers (that were more senior than me) that chose to live in those cities. Salary or takehome? Sure, your net in SF will be higher than Orlando or London, but looking at resources such as levels.fyi, internal salary sharing sites at large companies, etc. the math for Seattle comp with no state income tax is pretty close to bay area minus tax.
Take home. Salary seems to be 1.5-2x Orlando peers.
I prefer Seattle over SF. In Seattle, I can own a car and have a safe place to park it.
Re: The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
#55There are obvious exceptions to everything. But I’ve lived in Atlanta, Orlando, SF and Seattle. Moving to SF was a career multiplier. I instantly doubled my salary. Now, I’m earning 2-5x more than my peers (that were more senior than me) that chose to live in those cities. Walmart was started in Arkansas. Warren Buffet famously lives in Nebraska. But the Tier 1 cities create more wealth for more people than Tier 2 or…
Take-home pay is indeed higher in the bay but unless already had a family, that take-home pay is worthless in what is without a doubt the most socially dull major metro in the US.
Take-home pay isn't higher if you consider taxes.
I go on way more road trips and hikes than what San Francisco ever permitted. While SF has a few good hikes, it expensive to own a car (parking, insurance, break ins, ticketing).
Seattle has access to Canada, islands, mountains, snow skiing, and boating.
Re: The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much more are you spending (on non-avoidable cost of living stuff) now that you live in SF, though? If I hypothetically doubled my salary _and_ my expenses, that hardly seems worth it. Although NorCal is gorgeous.
Pretty much if you ever double your salary you will come out ahead as everything else doesn't double. (And even if it does, your savings also doubled so you can retire to a lower cost of living and come out ahead). If you go from say 120k to 240k in salary your housing may go from say 1k (12k/year) to 3k (36k/year) but at the end of the year 120k-12k is 108k while 240k-36k is 204 which is a net gain of 96k! Of course…
your salary is probably not doubling fully post-tax though
Re: The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's something else that I can't easily explain. I'm a remote SWE now, and I go to a local office I'm not assigned to. Just in that tech circle, I have way more friends at work here than I did in Silicon Valley, where I saw my team and department each day in-office. I was just as friendly and outgoing in both places, and similar place in my life (married). There are a lot of good things about living in Silicon Valley…
The problems are roughly: - Monoculture - Generally risk-averse and cliquish population whose primary concern is (understandably) survival and accumulating the money needed to live a normal middle class life and are drawn to the “peaceful” atmosphere of the region (a word you’ll hear especially frequently) - Terrible urban planning and poor density for socialization: sprawling suburbia, lifeless downtown cores, every…
The downtown areas of Mountain View, Cupertino, San Jose, Los Altos, Saratoga, and Palo Alto are pretty lively (sorry Sunnyvale). And most of America is suburbia, but people are still friendlier there.
Re: The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty much if you ever double your salary you will come out ahead as everything else doesn't double. (And even if it does, your savings also doubled so you can retire to a lower cost of living and come out ahead). If you go from say 120k to 240k in salary your housing may go from say 1k (12k/year) to 3k (36k/year) but at the end of the year 120k-12k is 108k while 240k-36k is 204 which is a net gain of 96k! Of course…
your salary is probably not doubling fully post-tax though
YMMV.
At least for me since the compensation tripled, the salary effectively doubled post-tax.
Given that the BLS puts the median programmer at 99k/yr [1] I think your salary will double if you go to the bay area.
Re: The case against living in the Bay Area, for ambitious tech people
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's something else that I can't easily explain. I'm a remote SWE now, and I go to a local office I'm not assigned to. Just in that tech circle, I have way more friends at work here than I did in Silicon Valley, where I saw my team and department each day in-office. I was just as friendly and outgoing in both places, and similar place in my life (married). There are a lot of good things about living in Silicon Valley…
The problems are roughly: - Monoculture - Generally risk-averse and cliquish population whose primary concern is (understandably) survival and accumulating the money needed to live a normal middle class life and are drawn to the “peaceful” atmosphere of the region (a word you’ll hear especially frequently) - Terrible urban planning and poor density for socialization: sprawling suburbia, lifeless downtown cores, every…
I had the issue with people not wanting to hang out after work, but it wasn't due to commute distance.