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Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

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Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#51

Post by kylehotchkiss »

jongjong wrote: post #44
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add on that there is no complete understanding of this system with all the Unknown Unknowns etc and you can see why we should test this stuff better before letting hims.com just disperse it across the american populace

Yes 100%. That's why I never understood the rollout of MRNA vaccines during COVID. It's like pushing a massive code change straight to production during peak traffic and without the normal phased rollout. I totally understand where conspiracy theorists are coming from. That didn't seem right.

yeah, it's too bad the tech didn't have a better way to gain peoples trust (through some other breakthrough with the normal set of clinical trials). I think the solve was impressive (tell cells to produce a protein that looks exactly the same as the viruses and place it outside the cell to piss off antibodies) but protein-protein interaction data is hard to come by. Maybe these guys can figure it out https://www.aalphabio.com

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#52

Post by loeg »

com2kid wrote: post #10
sfink wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a linked article saying that 40% of the weight loss is muscle.

Outside of cardiac muscle, which is a bit worrisome, 40% of weight loss being from muscles is incredibly typical for any diet that sheds pounds. There are very complex dietary regimes that can be followed to minimize this, but most studies have shown that they don't save any time compared to losing weight and then working to get the muscle back afterwards. > Dyck’s study comes on the heels of a commentary published i…

> There are very complex dietary regimes that can be followed to minimize this

The dietary regime isn't complex -- just consume a LOT of protein. Something like 1-2 g/kg/d. And non-dietary: do strength training.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#53

Post by andy_ppp »

cm2187 wrote: post #30
hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, does your appetite come back whence you cut off the meds? The only reason I want to lose weight is to eat more freely, won't be useful if I lose my appetite too.

You don't lose taste, you lose your appetite, which means you can resist the temptation to eat easily, and you feel full very quickly. That doesn't prevent you from eating what you like, but it does help you to not eat too much of it, which I hope is not what you mean by "more freely". The appetite comes back when you cut the meds, but it's an appetite based on your new weight. But if you then go on a some suggar ram…

What I’ve found is foods I could usually binge on like pizza I’m quite full on GLP-1 inhibitors and can quite happily stop at half or 2/3 of a pizza. Usually I’d have eaten the whole thing (12” think napoleon style pizza Americans) and want more, refined carbs I never feel full from.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#54

Post by andy_ppp »

hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #35
cm2187 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't lose taste, you lose your appetite, which means you can resist the temptation to eat easily, and you feel full very quickly. That doesn't prevent you from eating what you like, but it does help you to not eat too much of it, which I hope is not what you mean by "more freely". The appetite comes back when you cut the meds, but it's an appetite based on your new weight. But if you then go on a some suggar ram…

Thanks, that's good enough. I have been going to weight loss for over 6 months but I'm stuck between 79 and 80kg. It's a bit difficult to add more weight lifting because I tended to hurt myself, so eat less is better.

Add walking for 2h per day is the recommended I’ve seen.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#55

Post by moduspol »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #18
jongjong wrote: post #5

As a coder, I'm realising more and more that the human body isn't so different from a computer. When you try to fix something without having complete understanding of all the relevant parts of the system, you will invariably introduce new issues. With a machine as complex as the human body, it seems inevitable that the field of medicine would be a game of whac-a-mole. Finding solutions which don't create new problems…

Add on that there is no complete understanding of this system with all the Unknown Unknowns etc and you can see why we should test this stuff better before letting hims.com just disperse it across the american populace

Perhaps--though worth keeping in mind that the overwhelming alternative is just lifelong obesity, along with all the negative impacts from that.

At least at a societal level, some increased rates of pancreatitis and a little suboptimal muscle loss are peanuts compared to what high obesity rates do to people at scale.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#56

Post by colordrops »

cm2187 wrote: post #13

> emerging research showing that up to 40 per cent of the weight lost by people using weight-loss drugs is actually muscle That's the sort of headlines that smells like bullshit to me. My understand of those drugs is that they don't actually make you lose weight, they just cut your appetite so you can follow a diet to lose weight without hunger hammering at the door. So to start with, if that's the case, all they are…

So it smells like bullshit because of your personal anecdote? Or because some scientific evidence or experience you have?

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#57

Post by groby_b »

chunky1994 wrote: post #38
throwup238 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next line of the article after that 40% quote: > Carla Prado, a nutrition researcher in the Faculty of Agricultural, Life & Environmental Sciences and lead author on the commentary, explains this rate of muscle decline is significantly higher than what is typically observed with calorie-reduced diets or normal aging and could lead to a host of long-term health issues — including decreased immunity, increased risk…

I'd like to see the diets in the study that are specified as the "calorie-reduced diets". (Can't seem to find the paper). If it's the same as the Standard American Diet, this muscle loss is quite explainable. I think the mitigation is relatively easy though, if you want to shift the p-ratio, recommending a daily high protein shake would do a lot to stave off muscle loss (and even more if resistance training is applie…

I'd be surprised if either mice or human cells eat "the Standard American Diet"

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#58

Post by hehehheh »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #50
throwup238 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next line of the article after that 40% quote: > Carla Prado, a nutrition researcher in the Faculty of Agricultural, Life & Environmental Sciences and lead author on the commentary, explains this rate of muscle decline is significantly higher than what is typically observed with calorie-reduced diets or normal aging and could lead to a host of long-term health issues — including decreased immunity, increased risk…

>Losing weight without losing muscle mass is very hard. I was with you up to here. In my experience it's easy to maintain a huge proportion of your lean tissue during a weight loss diet: Do some resistance training, get some protein, and don't lose weight too quickly. There's no need to go to the extreme of a PSMF - which will still have you lose a bunch of muscle on account of being too big a deficit. If you can kee…

Intuitively, if you can lift a modest bench press (not novice, maybe beginner-intermediate) and you keep training and you consume a few fewer calories (not starve) why would you lose your strength.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#60

Post by Kirby64 »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #50
throwup238 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next line of the article after that 40% quote: > Carla Prado, a nutrition researcher in the Faculty of Agricultural, Life & Environmental Sciences and lead author on the commentary, explains this rate of muscle decline is significantly higher than what is typically observed with calorie-reduced diets or normal aging and could lead to a host of long-term health issues — including decreased immunity, increased risk…

>Losing weight without losing muscle mass is very hard. I was with you up to here. In my experience it's easy to maintain a huge proportion of your lean tissue during a weight loss diet: Do some resistance training, get some protein, and don't lose weight too quickly. There's no need to go to the extreme of a PSMF - which will still have you lose a bunch of muscle on account of being too big a deficit. If you can kee…

For the average overweight person? I disagree. The average obese person does little to no resistance training, eats very little protein, and wants to lose weight fast so they're not paying for expensive GLP1 drugs for a long period of time.

You're asking folks to make three separate changes: start exercising, change their diet to add protein, and use GLP1s to reduce food amount. And reducing food amount already goes against adding protein, so whatever protein they were getting is going to get cut even further.

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