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A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

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Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#51

Post by ken »

irollboozers wrote: post #46
tylermenezes wrote: post #41

It's funny, because it seems to me that a lot of the talent coming out of UW CSE isn't going to make it into the valley in any meaningful way. UW CSE is still entirely focused on grades. There's literally no way to include anything but grades in your admission application -- not even recommendation letters. I've talked to some of the admissions faculty, and their argument is that it's unfair to people who are totally…

Lol, this is why I laughed to myself when reading this article. There are tons, I mean tons, of great startups coming out of UW, but they are not coming from the CSE program. They are coming from math, physics, life sciences, and even the entrepreneurship program at the Foster b-school. All the kids who I've met making waves in the Seattle startup scene are informally trained hackers. Oh and by the way, did I mention…

I think you're right about UW CSE, but I'd like to point out similar observations on a different axis.

I know lots of software people in and around Seattle, and I've worked at a couple startups here. A few are "informally trained hackers", but most are formally trained -- only elsewhere (mostly Stanford, or east coast schools you've heard of).

While everyone knows that UW has a good CS department, I don't think I know a single person who went there. I actually know more programmers who went to Whitman (one) than UW.

I don't know where they're going: maybe they leave town, or maybe they're getting hired by big companies, or maybe I'm just hanging out in the wrong circles (quite possible).

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#52

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nickbarnwell wrote: post #50
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admit rates for private schools are lower since they generally take from a national pool, and the schools are quite popular (lots of noise applications with no chance of getting in). In comparison, UCB has a 21% admit rate from a large state of California and lots of other research schools in competition (UCSD, UCLA, UCD...). UW is only one of two research state schools in Washington, the other being WSU way across t…

I am very aware of how the process works and how one's chances are based on holistic factors. Regardless, I spent the last year at UW and to say it's an elite school one would need to ignore large swaths of those who attend. I have had the fortune to speak with tens of former and current Stanford attendees while at Google this summer - overwhelmingly their ability to carry on an interesting conversation, make nuanced…

UW is still a local state school; you shouldn't expect that students come in with the level of prep as say MIT or Stanford. Its elitness is local and comes mainly from the challenge of getting in, which, for those that bother to try (because they are in the Seattle area), is painful enough! UW also tended to weed students out rather early while I was there; 50% of my friends from the incoming class were gone by the time I hit my sophmore year.

Of course, UW is not as exclusive as UW CSE, but to suggest UW itself is just a so so University is insulting to me.

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#53

Post by nickbarnwell »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #52
nickbarnwell wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very aware of how the process works and how one's chances are based on holistic factors. Regardless, I spent the last year at UW and to say it's an elite school one would need to ignore large swaths of those who attend. I have had the fortune to speak with tens of former and current Stanford attendees while at Google this summer - overwhelmingly their ability to carry on an interesting conversation, make nuanced…

UW is still a local state school; you shouldn't expect that students come in with the level of prep as say MIT or Stanford. Its elitness is local and comes mainly from the challenge of getting in, which, for those that bother to try (because they are in the Seattle area), is painful enough! UW also tended to weed students out rather early while I was there; 50% of my friends from the incoming class were gone by the t…

> UW is not as exclusive as UW CSE, but to suggest UW itself is just a so so University is insulting to me.

I'm sorry you feel that way, I am merely sharing my experiences and impressions of the school, and "so so" is certainly how I would describe it. I had the fortune of attending a fairly elite international school abroad and a highly ranked public high school in Massachusetts. In both places the caliber of student was high, and I was rather disappointed to find university less so. I have my biases, as you yours, but I do believe my argument has some merit.

That said, to call a school "elite" because it is difficult for locals to get in is both disingenuous and inconsistent with your prior statement that it is nearly as competitive as its more widely known and more prestigious competitors. UW continues to care increasingly less about its undergraduate population and view them as a funding source for research as much as valuable contributors to the campus community. Tuition hikes are putting it closer and closer to the cost of attending a private university at the same time class sizes are larger than ever and making it so most fresher could go an entire year without so much as meeting a professor one-on-one.

What most boggles me however, is that Seattleites remain fiercely devoted to the school. In Massachusetts (and New England in general) it's rare to find ten people in a room having gone to the same university, whereas in Seattle it seems the rare occasion for that not to be the case. Is it the lack of viable alternatives for the highly capable wanting to stay close to home?

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#54

Post by larrys »

nickbarnwell wrote: post #53
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UW is still a local state school; you shouldn't expect that students come in with the level of prep as say MIT or Stanford. Its elitness is local and comes mainly from the challenge of getting in, which, for those that bother to try (because they are in the Seattle area), is painful enough! UW also tended to weed students out rather early while I was there; 50% of my friends from the incoming class were gone by the t…

> UW is not as exclusive as UW CSE, but to suggest UW itself is just a so so University is insulting to me. I'm sorry you feel that way, I am merely sharing my experiences and impressions of the school, and "so so" is certainly how I would describe it. I had the fortune of attending a fairly elite international school abroad and a highly ranked public high school in Massachusetts. In both places the caliber of studen…

"In both places the caliber of student was high, and I was rather disappointed to find university less so."

I have to say that my experience in a similar situation (many years ago) was similar and I agree.

But in your other comment where you said this:

"tens of former and current Stanford attendees while at Google"

You are taking a group of "Stanford attendees" who ended up with jobs at google. So I'm wondering to what extent that group is representative of Stanford attendees and not google's hiring practices. Was there a difference that you could tell with those working at google who didn't go to Stanford?

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#55

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nickbarnwell wrote: post #53
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UW is still a local state school; you shouldn't expect that students come in with the level of prep as say MIT or Stanford. Its elitness is local and comes mainly from the challenge of getting in, which, for those that bother to try (because they are in the Seattle area), is painful enough! UW also tended to weed students out rather early while I was there; 50% of my friends from the incoming class were gone by the t…

> UW is not as exclusive as UW CSE, but to suggest UW itself is just a so so University is insulting to me. I'm sorry you feel that way, I am merely sharing my experiences and impressions of the school, and "so so" is certainly how I would describe it. I had the fortune of attending a fairly elite international school abroad and a highly ranked public high school in Massachusetts. In both places the caliber of studen…

For undergraduate, UW is primarily a school for work class locals; we were not rich enough to go to nice prep schools and then afford the tuition of a nice Ivy league school. But then Seattle is also a fairly sophisticated upper-middle class city, so why not make the school in your backyard very good? That tuition is rising sucks; I paid $800 a quarter when I started in '93, and could get by mostly paying my own way; that is obviously no longer possible. But it is still relatively affordable if you live at home as well as a first-class research institution, Seattlites still want to send their kids there while UW is getting increased attention from China/India/the rest of asia (UW always did actually, 90% of the international students hail from somewhere in Asia). As a working class school, UW is definitely elite, but compared to other much elite schools for the elite then ya, UW is not Stanford.

I rarely interact with other people from UW CSE, this is the case even in Seattle as its just not a very big program. However, I do know a couple of UW CSE graduates where I work today (Beijing China).

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#56

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ken wrote: post #51
irollboozers wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, this is why I laughed to myself when reading this article. There are tons, I mean tons, of great startups coming out of UW, but they are not coming from the CSE program. They are coming from math, physics, life sciences, and even the entrepreneurship program at the Foster b-school. All the kids who I've met making waves in the Seattle startup scene are informally trained hackers. Oh and by the way, did I mention…

I think you're right about UW CSE, but I'd like to point out similar observations on a different axis. I know lots of software people in and around Seattle, and I've worked at a couple startups here. A few are "informally trained hackers", but most are formally trained -- only elsewhere (mostly Stanford, or east coast schools you've heard of). While everyone knows that UW has a good CS department, I don't think I kno…

It used to be that most UW CSE grads went down to Intel, these days many are off to Google; I'm sure some of them even make their way to Microsoft, but its not a large program so its not like you would see many around outside some otherwise obvious places.

Coolness about Whitman. Walla Walla doesn't get enough love.

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#57

Post by nickbarnwell »

larrys wrote: post #54
nickbarnwell wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> UW is not as exclusive as UW CSE, but to suggest UW itself is just a so so University is insulting to me. I'm sorry you feel that way, I am merely sharing my experiences and impressions of the school, and "so so" is certainly how I would describe it. I had the fortune of attending a fairly elite international school abroad and a highly ranked public high school in Massachusetts. In both places the caliber of studen…

"In both places the caliber of student was high, and I was rather disappointed to find university less so." I have to say that my experience in a similar situation (many years ago) was similar and I agree. But in your other comment where you said this: "tens of former and current Stanford attendees while at Google" You are taking a group of "Stanford attendees" who ended up with jobs at google. So I'm wondering to wh…

> But in your other comment where you said this: > "tens of former and current Stanford attendees while at Google"

I stated that rather poorly. I am interning at Google in Mountain View for the Summer, but not all of the Stanford attendees I have met and spoken with at length are working there, though most at Google are certainly bright.

Regardless of whether they are working at Google, Facebook, hacking away in a SOMA loft, or hunkered down in their parents' garage all of them have been highly intelligent and fun to be around. Whether that's more representative of who I choose to befriend with than the university's admission practices is another question altogether ;)

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#58

Post by majorlazer »

gwern wrote: post #20
majorlazer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved up to the Portland area a couple years ago from California, and I have considered going to U. of Washington for CS. I love the school, the campus is just beautiful and the city is really cool. But since moving up here, my productivity has taken a serious hit. From the months of October well into June, I have a constant struggle to stay motivated with such dreary weather. I know Portland isn't Seattle, but I v…

I wonder how much of that may be a vitamin D deficiency or a kind of SAD? Too late for you to experiment with melatonin, high lux lights, or vitamin D, I guess.

I actually did take Vitamin D and 5-HTP for quite sometime (still take 5-HTP), and it did help me a little bit. My problem was the fact that every time I go outside to head to work/school, it's either raining, cloudy, foggy, or a combination of the three. And I used to love rain and fog when I lived in California, but it didn't last for 6+ months at a time.

Waking up in the morning during the winter has been the worst part. I have always been an early riser, but when I just moved here, for about a year I could barely get up at 9am.

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#59

Post by edwinnathaniel »

WildUtah wrote: post #43
tylermenezes wrote: post #41

It's funny, because it seems to me that a lot of the talent coming out of UW CSE isn't going to make it into the valley in any meaningful way. UW CSE is still entirely focused on grades. There's literally no way to include anything but grades in your admission application -- not even recommendation letters. I've talked to some of the admissions faculty, and their argument is that it's unfair to people who are totally…

Wait. I'm confused reading the admission comments. It seems you get admitted to UW undergrad, and then after two years you apply to the CSE thing. Are you considered undeclared until then? Is there any kind of test or is it entirely based on grades in the initial weeder classes? That seems like kind of a big risk to people who want to study a specific subject and might not get admitted to it. The'd just have to switc…

North of Washington, across the border, we have 2 big name schools: UBC and SFU. Both schools require prospective students to spend 1 to 2 years (SFU 1-year, UBC 2-years) taking "required courses" (Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, CS courses, and a few GEs) before they can apply to the CS program.

Both UBC and SFU have solid track records (beating UW consistently) when it comes to ACM CS competition:

https://sites.google.com/site/ubcprogrammingteam/history

Yes, gotta start some sort of pride-war between schools no? :)

Re: A Northwest Pipeline to Silicon Valley

#60

Post by pavedwalden »

majorlazer wrote: post #58
gwern wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of that may be a vitamin D deficiency or a kind of SAD? Too late for you to experiment with melatonin, high lux lights, or vitamin D, I guess.

I actually did take Vitamin D and 5-HTP for quite sometime (still take 5-HTP), and it did help me a little bit. My problem was the fact that every time I go outside to head to work/school, it's either raining, cloudy, foggy, or a combination of the three. And I used to love rain and fog when I lived in California, but it didn't last for 6+ months at a time. Waking up in the morning during the winter has been the wors…

I've had a hard time getting up in the morning all my life, and it was worse in the winters after moving to Portland. I ended up getting an earlier version of this gadget (http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU-Therapy-Device/dp/B...), and found that a few minutes of blue-frequency light every morning turned me into a natural early riser. (I still don't like mornings, but I naturally wake up and get out of bed at the same time every day)

Your circadian rhythm is especially susceptible to the blue end of the spectrum so instead of a 10,000 watt sun lamp you can just use one of these (or perhaps a home-brewed equivalent with the right LEDs) to let your body know that, if you were in a better lattitude, the sun would be shining right now.

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