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The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

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Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#51

Post by stego-tech »

crimsoneer wrote: post #12
svieira wrote: post #9

The key point: > Seeing as the great majority of students spend over 80% of their digital device time using these tools to multitask, the automatic response for a great majority of students using these tools has become multitasking.. Unfortunately, when we attempt to employ digital devices for learning purposes, this primary function quickly bleeds into student behavior. > This is why, when using a computer for homew…

The interesting follow-up here... there is no reason these effects should be restricted to children. Like, if children can't learn with devices in a classroom, it suggests executives can't learn in an office (and might give a hint as to why we haven't seen expected productivity benefits driven by it). But again, if the effect was this strong, I'd really expect to see broader evidence (even just at a national level ba…

The effect is absolutely that strong, even on adults. My anecdata in IT overwhelmingly supports that claim. Be it educational institutions, large enterprises, SMBs, or just Mom and Dad with their cell phones, the proliferation of distraction boxes has reduced critical and rational thinking abilities that are foundational elements of learning. After all, why try to reason out what you could just look up online? And if you can get the answer somewhere quicker, well, now you can also skim Twitter or Instagram with the time you saved.

During my brief stint working IT for private schools, with their SMARTBoards in every classroom, Meraki APs blanketing their 300 year old campus structures, and Chromebooks in the hands of every student, the feedback I got was that students hated having technology always with them (to the point of breaking their Chromebooks on purpose), while teachers would deliberately not report broken technology (like their SMARTBoards) so they could force kids off of electronics and into a textbook or journal. Despite the often adversarial relationship of students and teachers, both cohorts acted unconsciously towards the same outcome of less technology.

This early experience has also informed my perspective on the role of technology in the workplace as a force amplifier rather than mandatory toolset. It’s why I’m often fiercely resistant to any “new” technology coming in that doesn’t solve a problem we’ve already identified, as blindly expanding the IT estate just adds to the noise of the enterprise and detracts from the signals important to business.

Even the younger folks (20-30) I find community with outside of tech spaces bemoan the over reliance on technology in general. They aren’t luddites by any stretch of the truth, and they love BlueSky and Instagram and TikTok and all the usual social spaces where their friends are, but they’ve engaged in more active resistance to technology as a necessary component in everything they buy. This same cohort is often an ally at work, because they seek to push products or solutions that remove technology interactions from the daily grind through automation, rather than dragging in the latest toys like we (millennials) did.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#52

Post by tehjoker »

don't forget that 2021 is when we let all the students get infected with a virus that causes neurocognitive issues, and then infected them again. it's not the whole story, but damned if it isn't a big part of it.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#53

Post by panzagl »

throw_pm23 wrote: post #20

The teaching method I find best is a teacher explaining and writing with chalk on the blackboard, and the students taking handwritten notes on paper, asking whenever something is not clear. In other words, the most boring classical setup possible. Of course all the nuances and little details make all the difference: board picture, structure, teacher personality, pacing, choice of topic, interaction, motivation, excit…

My wife had one kid scream for 10 minutes yesterday and another throw a chair. Another just sat there and didn't do a thing for 7 hours. The Little House/Christmas Story model hasn't been able to work for a long time.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#54

Post by crimsoneer »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #24
crimsoneer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting follow-up here... there is no reason these effects should be restricted to children. Like, if children can't learn with devices in a classroom, it suggests executives can't learn in an office (and might give a hint as to why we haven't seen expected productivity benefits driven by it). But again, if the effect was this strong, I'd really expect to see broader evidence (even just at a national level ba…

There have been consistent reporting for two decades that screens are leading to measurable reductions in attention span. Three decades of reports linking the internet and digital culture with mental health issues. What evidence is missing?

I'd be particularly keen on evidence affecting primary outcomes - eg, are people genuinly more productive or healthier. Attention span is an interesting metric, but if it doesn't directly affect how much work you can do or the quality of it in a meaningful way, I am less fussed.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#55

Post by hindsightbias »

crimsoneer wrote: post #2

This is interesting, and I think plausible, but I find it... surprisinging that the evidence base is so poor. Like, I know entire states have banned smart-phones now, can we see those effects yet? If it's anywhere near as powerful as the author suggests, surely we should? The second question I have is about the outcome variable on these (but I realise I should probably just go read the damn research) - is it possible…

Perhaps the onus of the evidence base should be upon EdTech. I used to ask the OLPC fans where the studies were. Or what curricula had been tested to work, or what great education software was being ported, what measurable outcomes were expected, what programs were established to educate the ITeachers...

EdTech is a baseless orthodoxy tied together with hardware sales, unproven software and anecdotes.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#57

Post by VyseofArcadia »

donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

This has been the case for a long time. I was one of those kids who usually "got it" the first time I saw it, and then remembered it. So lectures usually moved much too slowly for me. In an effort to not be bored, I would usually sit quietly and read ahead in my textbook.

Some teachers were cool with this, but most of them would yell at me for not paying attention, and a couple specifically called me out for reading ahead on the basis that I thought I was too good for the class.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#58

Post by michaelrpeskin »

donatj wrote: post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

That's "equity" for you. We can't be unfair and give someone something that makes them better. It's easier to keep the top kids down than it is to lift the bottom kids up.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#59

Post by nutanc »

vundercind wrote: post #19
WillAdams wrote: post #7

How much of this student screen time is spent on: - Khan Academy - playing games such as _Dragon Box_ (which teaches the principles of math and esp. algebra) - reading and using books such as: https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/elements.htm... https://www.motionmountain.net/ https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-elements-by-theodore-gray/... and at the elementary level texts such as: _Just Grandma & Me_ http…

> - playing games such as _Dragon Box_ (which teaches the principles of math and esp. algebra) One of my kids got pretty damn good at Dragon Box in like... first grade, I think it was? As far as I can tell this has had (years later) no effect on actually being able to understand algebra any better. The connection's not there. I can see why, too—doing it myself, it was sometimes hard for me to figure out how the vario…

Since I am a developer I have always created fun games for my kids to play and learn. Almost every single time they just go with the game mechanics instead of the actual learning concept. The only game which worked was a roblox game[1] I created for fun. And that too, its just a basic obby. Nothing fancy. But I told my kid, he can play Roblox for 30 minutes if he can finish this obby for 5 numbers. So, in a way, had to force him. But within a week, he was able to memorize the multiplication tables :)

[1]https://www.roblox.com/games/10489578087/Multiplication-Game

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#60

Post by graemep »

ak_111 wrote: post #38

Could it be that part of the failure is that EdTech companies are focused on replacing the pedagogical aspect of schools, but the main utility of schools for parents is not pedagogy - it is a daycare centre for kids while parents go on about their careers?

The elephant in the room.

That said, i think it more true of governments than of parents. It increases the size of the workforce, therefore higher business profits and household income, therefore higher GDP.

Its pretty evidence in various attempts to increase time in school. talk about the "summer slump" in the US, or the government encouraging extended school days (drop off for "breakfast club", pick up after "after school" activities) in the UK.

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